Who was it who told me I was making a mountain of a mole hill in regards to
the PATRIOT act? I remember decrying it's freedom stripping properties, and
calling it 'the first step toward a fascist USA' (or something similar)...
I was subsequently castigated and told that it was a neccessary, and
temporary evil... temporary, due to the sunset clause that generally applies
to these kinds of war-time laws.
Guess what?
=====================
House votes to extend Patriot Act
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/21/congress.patriotact.ap/index.html
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The House voted Thursday to extend the USA Patriot Act,
the nation's main anti-terrorism tool, just hours after televisions in the
Capitol beamed images of a new attack in London.
As similar legislation worked its way through the Senate, House Republicans
generally cast the law as a valuable asset in the war on terror. Most
Democrats echoed that support but said they were concerned the law could
allow citizens' civil liberties to be infringed.
Following more than nine hours of debate, the House approved the measure
257-171. Forty-three Democrats joined 214 Republicans in voting to renew key
provisions of Patriot Act that were set to expire at the end of the year.
The bulk of the back-and-forth centered on language making permanent 14 of
16 provisions that had four-year sunset provisions under the original law,
which Congress passed overwhelmingly after the September 11, 2001, terrorist
attacks.
The bill also proposed 10-year extensions to the two other provisions set to
expire on December 31, one allowing roving wiretaps and another allowing
searches of library and medical records. They were the focus of most of the
controversy as members plowed through the main legislation and 18
amendments.
"While the Patriot Act and other anti-terrorism initiatives have helped
avert additional attacks on our soil, the threat has not receded," said Rep.
James Sensenbrenner, R-Wisconsin, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.
Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, the top Democrat on the committee, said that
while "I support the majority of the 166 provisions of the Patriot Act," the
extensions could lessen accountability. "Ten years is not a sunset; 10 years
is semi-permanent," he said.
The Bush administration hailed the vote.
"After measured deliberation and a public debate, the House has again
provided the brave men and women of law enforcement with critical tools in
their efforts to combat terrorism and protect the American people, Attorney
General Alberto Gonzales said in a statement.
As the House debated the legislation, the Senate Judiciary Committee
approved its own extension of the bill, though it included only four-year
extensions for the roving wiretap and records search provisions.
A competing bill also has been approved by the Senate Intelligence
Committee, which would give the FBI expanded powers to subpoena records
without the approval of a judge or grand jury. That ensured further Senate
talks on the terrorism-fighting measure. The House legislation will also
have to be reconciled with whatever emerges from the Senate.
The House debate included frequent references to the attacks earlier in the
day, two weeks after larger London blasts that killed 56, including four
suicide bombers.
The roving wiretap provision, Section 206, allows investigators to obtain
warrants to intercept a suspect's phone conversations or Internet traffic
without limiting it to a specific phone or identifying the suspect. The
records provision, Section 215, authorizes federal officials to obtain
"tangible items" such as business, library and medical records.
Advocates argued that such powers already exist in criminal investigations
so they should be expressly continued for terrorism investigations. They
also cited safeguards in the bill, such as a requirement that a judge
approve the records search.
One amendment, passed by a 402-26 vote, requires the FBI director to
personally approve any request for library or bookstore records.
Another successful amendment sets a 20-year jail term for an attack against
a rail or mass-transit vehicle; a 30-year sentence if the vehicle carries
nuclear material; and life imprisonment -- with the possibility of the death
penalty -- if anyone is killed in such an attack.
Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Michigan, a former FBI agent, recalled using such tools
in gang and child molestation investigations.
"All we do in the Patriot Act is say, `Look, if we can go after child
molesters sitting in the library and bombers who we need to sneak-and-peek
on a warrant, we ought to be able to go after terrorists,"' he said.
Critics heralded the bulk of the existing law, but said the sunsets were
wisely inserted amid the inflamed passions following the September 11
attacks, and should be retained to assess the long-term impact of the law.
"Periodically revisiting the Patriot Act is a good thing," said Rep. Martin
Meehan, D-Massachusetts. "The Patriot Act was an effort to answer the most
difficult question a democracy faces: How much freedom are we willing to
give up to feel safe?"
Democrats were incensed after Republican leaders blocked consideration of an
amendment that would have blocked the library searches. The House approved
identical language last month in a test vote.
"If you don't like it, come up and speak against it," said Rep. Bernie
Sanders, I-Vermont, who sponsored the amendment. "But it has passed once and
it would likely pass again."
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
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| Title: Re: Who was it that said not to worry about PATRIOT? |
22 Jul 2005 12:39:02 AM |
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Aidan wrote:
Who was it who told me I was making a mountain of a mole hill in regards to
the PATRIOT act? I remember decrying it's freedom stripping properties, and
calling it 'the first step toward a fascist USA' (or something similar)...
I was subsequently castigated and told that it was a neccessary, and
temporary evil... temporary, due to the sunset clause that generally applies
to these kinds of war-time laws.
Guess what?
=====================
House votes to extend Patriot Act
What are you worried about? Do you think it might affect Australia, and
it might limit your right to free speech or something?
.
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| User: "Aidan" |
|
| Title: Re: Who was it that said not to worry about PATRIOT? |
22 Jul 2005 12:49:35 AM |
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"Steven Douglas" <dsteven@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:1122010742.940222.17770@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Aidan wrote:
Who was it who told me I was making a mountain of a mole hill in regards
to
the PATRIOT act? I remember decrying it's freedom stripping properties,
and
calling it 'the first step toward a fascist USA' (or something
similar)...
I was subsequently castigated and told that it was a neccessary, and
temporary evil... temporary, due to the sunset clause that generally
applies
to these kinds of war-time laws.
Guess what?
=====================
House votes to extend Patriot Act
What are you worried about?
Concern for my fellow man was the cause of my worry.
Do you think it might affect Australia, and
it might limit your right to free speech or something?
Of course not.
.
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| User: "Woodswun" |
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| Title: Re: Who was it that said not to worry about PATRIOT? |
22 Jul 2005 04:30:57 PM |
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Steven Douglas wrote:
Aidan wrote:
Who was it who told me I was making a mountain of a mole hill in regards to
the PATRIOT act? I remember decrying it's freedom stripping properties, and
calling it 'the first step toward a fascist USA' (or something similar)...
I was subsequently castigated and told that it was a neccessary, and
temporary evil... temporary, due to the sunset clause that generally applies
to these kinds of war-time laws.
Guess what?
=====================
House votes to extend Patriot Act
What are you worried about? Do you think it might affect Australia, and
it might limit your right to free speech or something?
It brings the world's only super power one step closer to being a police
state. If I were a citizen of another country, I'd be pretty concerned,
too. Or, have you forgotten every.single.thing you were taught during
the Cold War about how the Communists ran things? We're becoming
exactly that.
Woods
.
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| User: "O:--:" |
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| Title: Re: Who was it that said not to worry about PATRIOT? |
22 Jul 2005 12:52:57 PM |
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Don't you worry bout a thing.
Cause every little thing is gonna
be all right. - Bob Marley
He was a patriot. I do like that
word *patriot* when I look at it
my brain sees -> rioting is pathetic.
.
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| User: "Doc" |
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| Title: Re: Who was it that said not to worry about PATRIOT? |
22 Jul 2005 12:42:58 AM |
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Fascinating "coincidence" that the 7-7 and 7-21 bombings so perfectly fit
the time frame in which the Congress cast its vote on extending the
Patriot Act.
Most curious...of course, it may have passed without the terroristic
events possibly influencing the emotional state of American lawmakers.
Doc
"Aidan" <nospam.aweraw@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$h7o0ki$cdo$1@titan.linknet.com.au...
Who was it who told me I was making a mountain of a mole hill in regards
to the PATRIOT act? I remember decrying it's freedom stripping
properties, and calling it 'the first step toward a fascist USA' (or
something similar)... I was subsequently castigated and told that it was
a neccessary, and temporary evil... temporary, due to the sunset clause
that generally applies to these kinds of war-time laws.
Guess what?
=====================
House votes to extend Patriot Act
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/21/congress.patriotact.ap/index.html
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The House voted Thursday to extend the USA Patriot
Act, the nation's main anti-terrorism tool, just hours after televisions
in the Capitol beamed images of a new attack in London.
As similar legislation worked its way through the Senate, House
Republicans generally cast the law as a valuable asset in the war on
terror. Most Democrats echoed that support but said they were concerned
the law could allow citizens' civil liberties to be infringed.
Following more than nine hours of debate, the House approved the measure
257-171. Forty-three Democrats joined 214 Republicans in voting to renew
key provisions of Patriot Act that were set to expire at the end of the
year.
The bulk of the back-and-forth centered on language making permanent 14
of 16 provisions that had four-year sunset provisions under the original
law, which Congress passed overwhelmingly after the September 11, 2001,
terrorist attacks.
The bill also proposed 10-year extensions to the two other provisions
set to expire on December 31, one allowing roving wiretaps and another
allowing searches of library and medical records. They were the focus of
most of the controversy as members plowed through the main legislation
and 18 amendments.
"While the Patriot Act and other anti-terrorism initiatives have helped
avert additional attacks on our soil, the threat has not receded," said
Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wisconsin, chairman of the House Judiciary
Committee.
Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, the top Democrat on the committee, said
that while "I support the majority of the 166 provisions of the Patriot
Act," the extensions could lessen accountability. "Ten years is not a
sunset; 10 years is semi-permanent," he said.
The Bush administration hailed the vote.
"After measured deliberation and a public debate, the House has again
provided the brave men and women of law enforcement with critical tools
in their efforts to combat terrorism and protect the American people,
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said in a statement.
As the House debated the legislation, the Senate Judiciary Committee
approved its own extension of the bill, though it included only
four-year extensions for the roving wiretap and records search
provisions.
A competing bill also has been approved by the Senate Intelligence
Committee, which would give the FBI expanded powers to subpoena records
without the approval of a judge or grand jury. That ensured further
Senate talks on the terrorism-fighting measure. The House legislation
will also have to be reconciled with whatever emerges from the Senate.
The House debate included frequent references to the attacks earlier in
the day, two weeks after larger London blasts that killed 56, including
four suicide bombers.
The roving wiretap provision, Section 206, allows investigators to
obtain warrants to intercept a suspect's phone conversations or Internet
traffic without limiting it to a specific phone or identifying the
suspect. The records provision, Section 215, authorizes federal
officials to obtain "tangible items" such as business, library and
medical records.
Advocates argued that such powers already exist in criminal
investigations so they should be expressly continued for terrorism
investigations. They also cited safeguards in the bill, such as a
requirement that a judge approve the records search.
One amendment, passed by a 402-26 vote, requires the FBI director to
personally approve any request for library or bookstore records.
Another successful amendment sets a 20-year jail term for an attack
against a rail or mass-transit vehicle; a 30-year sentence if the
vehicle carries nuclear material; and life imprisonment -- with the
possibility of the death penalty -- if anyone is killed in such an
attack.
Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Michigan, a former FBI agent, recalled using such
tools in gang and child molestation investigations.
"All we do in the Patriot Act is say, `Look, if we can go after child
molesters sitting in the library and bombers who we need to
sneak-and-peek on a warrant, we ought to be able to go after
terrorists,"' he said.
Critics heralded the bulk of the existing law, but said the sunsets were
wisely inserted amid the inflamed passions following the September 11
attacks, and should be retained to assess the long-term impact of the
law.
"Periodically revisiting the Patriot Act is a good thing," said Rep.
Martin Meehan, D-Massachusetts. "The Patriot Act was an effort to answer
the most difficult question a democracy faces: How much freedom are we
willing to give up to feel safe?"
Democrats were incensed after Republican leaders blocked consideration
of an amendment that would have blocked the library searches. The House
approved identical language last month in a test vote.
"If you don't like it, come up and speak against it," said Rep. Bernie
Sanders, I-Vermont, who sponsored the amendment. "But it has passed once
and it would likely pass again."
.
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| User: "O:--:" |
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| Title: Re: Who was it that said not to worry about PATRIOT? |
22 Jul 2005 12:23:21 AM |
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What if the world ends in two days.
That won't really matter much then.
.
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| User: "Aidan" |
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| Title: Re: Who was it that said not to worry about PATRIOT? |
22 Jul 2005 12:24:28 AM |
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"O:-)(-:<" <tadapope@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1122009801.704165.141280@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
What if the world ends in two days.
That won't really matter much then.
That's the bright side, I guess...
You are a perpetual optimist!
.
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| User: "O:--:" |
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| Title: Re: Who was it that said not to worry about PATRIOT? |
22 Jul 2005 12:48:31 PM |
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Yes I am!
.
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