Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory
By Medea Benjamin, AlterNet. Posted August 18, 2004.
Go to the barrios of Caracas, and it becomes obvious why the recall
effort against Hugo Chavez failed: providing people with free health
care, education, small business loans and job training is a good way
to win the hearts and minds of the people.
When the rule of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was reaffirmed in a
landslide 58-42 percent victory on Sunday, the opposition who put the
recall vote on the ballot was stunned. They obviously don't spend much
time in the nation's poor neighborhoods.
I knew Chavez would win the referendum when I met Olivia Delfino in a
poor Caracas barrio that our international election delegation
visited. Olivia came running out of her tiny house and grabbed my arm.
"Tell the people of your country that we love Hugo Chavez," she
insisted. She went on to tell me how her life had changed since he
came to power. After living in the barrio for 40 years, she now had a
formal title to her home and a bank loan to fix the roof so it
wouldn't leak. Thanks to the Cuban dentists and a program called
"Rescatando la sonrisa" – recovering the smile – for the first time in
her life she was able to get her teeth fixed. And her daughter is in a
job training program to become a nurse's assistant.
Getting more and more animated, Olivia dragged me over to a poster on
the wall showing Hugo Chavez with a throng of followers and a list of
Venezuela's new social programs that read: "The social programs are
ours, let's defend them." Then slowly and laboriously, she began
reading the list of social programs: literacy, health care, job
training, land reform, subsidized food, small loans. I asked her if
she was just learning to read and write as part of the literacy
program. That's when she started crying. "Can you imagine what's it
has meant to me, at 52 years old, to now have a chance to read?" she
said. "It's transformed my life."
Walk through poor barrios in Venezuela and you'll hear the same
stories over and over. The very poor can now go to a designated home
in the neighborhood to pick up a hot meal every day. The elderly have
monthly pensions that allow them to live with dignity. Young people
can take advantage of greatly expanded free college programs. And with
13,000 Cuban doctors spread throughout the country and reaching over
half the population, the poor now have their own family doctors on
call 24-hours a day – doctors who even make house calls. This heath
care, including medicines, are all free.
The programs are being paid for with the income from Venezuela's oil,
which is at an all-time high. Previously, the nation's oil wealth
benefited only a small, well-connected elite who kept themselves in
power for 40 years through an electoral duopoly. The vast majority in
this oil-rich nation remained poor, disenfranchised, and disempowered.
With the election of Hugo Chavez in 1998 on a platform of sharing the
nation's oil wealth with the poorest, all that has changed. The poor
are now not only recipients of these programs, they are actively
engaged in running them. They're turning abandoned buildings into
neighborhood centers, running community kitchens, volunteering to
teach in the literacy programs and organizing neighborhood health
brigades.
Infuriated by their loss of power, the elite have used their control
over the media to blast Chavez for destroying the economy, cozying up
to Fidel Castro, antagonizing the US government, expropriating private
property, and governing through dictatorial rule.
The opposition managed to collect enough signatures to trigger this
Sunday's referendum on the president's mandate. Chavez supporters,
bolstered by almost every poll, expected to win. "The opposition can
lie all they want about Chavez," said Olivia defiantly, "but the facts
speak for themselves. Before no one cared about us, the poor. Now they
do."
The opposition accuse Chavez of using the social programs that have so
improved the lives of the poor as a way to gain voters. In this, the
opposition is right: providing people with free health care,
education, small business loans and job training is certainly a good
way to win the hearts and minds of the people.
Sunday's overwhelming victory for Chavez has given him an even
stronger mandate for his "revolution for the poor." It should also
give George Bush and John Kerry reason to rethink their attitude
towards Hugo Chavez. Rather than demonizing him as a new Fidel Castro
and stoking the opposition, US leaders should embrace Venezuela's
social transformation and the way it is empowering people like Olivia
Delfino.
Medea Benjamin, co-founder of the human rights group Global Exchange
and the women's peace group CodePink, is an election observer in
Venezuela.
Copied from: http://www.alternet.org/story/19585/
=============
There will be many more righteous powerful political leaders like
Chavez in the world as time goes on - who will be deserving of the
people's love and admiration. The time is coming when politicians who
are little more than puppets for the rich will be a sad aspect of the
past.
KB
=============
"Man must change or die. There is no other course."
The World Teacher
http://www.share-international.org
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 05:14:04 AM |
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(know buddee) wrote in message news:<52d3f97e.0408180810.3e166b8f@posting.google.com>...
Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory
By Medea Benjamin, AlterNet. Posted August 18, 2004.
[...]
The Importance of Hugo Chávez
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=2784
By TARIQ ALI
The turn-out in Venezuela last Sunday was huge. 94.9 percent of the
electorate voted in the recall referendum. Venezuela, under its new
Constitution, permitted the right of the citizens to recall a
President before s/he had completed their term of office. No Western
democracy enshrines this right in a written or unwritten constitution.
Chavez' victory will have repercussions beyond the borders of
Venezuela. It is a triumph of the poor against the rich and it is a
lesson that Lula in Brazil and Kirchner in Argentina should study
closely. It was Fidel Castro, not Carter, whose advice to go ahead
with the referendum was crucial. Chavez put his trust in the people by
empowering them and they responded generously. The opposition will
only discredit itself further by challenging the results.
Tariq Ali
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=18510aff.0312130506.5a4c9536%40posting.google.com
Hugo Chávez OR Chavez
http://news.google.com/news?q=Hugo%20%20Ch%C3%A1vez%20OR%20Chavez&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn
http://www.google.com/search?q=Hugo++Ch%C3%A1vez+OR+Chavez&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&tab=nw&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=Hugo++Ch%C3%A1vez+OR+Chavez&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&output=search&cat=gwd/Top
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Hugo%20Ch%C3%A1vez%20OR%20Chavez&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&scoring=d&tab=wg
Venezuelan Venezuelans Venezuela
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Venezuelan+OR+Venezuelans+OR+Venezuela&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Venezuelan+OR+Venezuelans+OR+Venezuela&sa=N&tab=nw
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=+Venezuelan+OR+Venezuelans+OR+Venezuela&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_oq=Venezuelan%20Venezuelans%20Venezuela&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en
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| User: "Not your business" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 09:07:21 PM |
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On 18 Aug 2004 09:10:18 -0700, (know buddee)
wrote:
Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory
That's easy. He cheated and then threw the ballots away.
.
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| User: "Barbarossa" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 09:19:14 PM |
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"Not your business" <noonebutme@home.com> schreef in bericht
news:m5nai01vn7h1fkb8195rorastlp905q31f@4ax.com...
On 18 Aug 2004 09:10:18 -0700, (know buddee)
wrote:
Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory
That's easy. He cheated and then threw the ballots away.
Nope, that is how Bush won Florida!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
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| User: "Ignoramus22762" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
18 Aug 2004 11:38:50 AM |
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Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor, has
backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a tad
more.
2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor will last
only as long as high oil prices.
3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the stupid
and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
the US standing instead of enhancing it.
i
.
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| User: "You Know Who" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 12:50:41 AM |
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Ignoramus22762 wrote:
Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor, has
backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a tad
more.
2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor will last
only as long as high oil prices.
3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the stupid
and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
the US standing instead of enhancing it.
He won through fraud. Most Venezuelans hate the *****. He is importing
Cubans and Colombians
as his muscle.
.
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| User: "Barbarossa" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 08:40:23 AM |
|
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"You Know Who" <Kerrysucks@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:IcXUc.53623$ih.9161@fed1read07...
Ignoramus22762 wrote:
Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor, has
backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a tad
more.
2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor will last
only as long as high oil prices.
3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the stupid
and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
the US standing instead of enhancing it.
He won through fraud. Most Venezuelans hate the *****. He is importing
Cubans and Colombians
as his muscle.
Yes, sure. As soon a left politician wins an election it must be fraud! How
strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote fair, so
without
having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you know
better than those international observers?
The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it doesn't
respect democracies. Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
election.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
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| User: "Strider" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 09:21:06 AM |
|
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"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4124adb9$0$3544$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"You Know Who" <Kerrysucks@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:IcXUc.53623$ih.9161@fed1read07...
Ignoramus22762 wrote:
Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor, has
backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a tad
more.
2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor will last
only as long as high oil prices.
3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the stupid
and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
the US standing instead of enhancing it.
He won through fraud. Most Venezuelans hate the *****. He is importing
Cubans and Colombians
as his muscle.
Yes, sure. As soon a left politician wins an election it must be fraud!
That's the way it works.
How strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote fair, so
without
having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you know
better than those international observers?
"International observers" tend toward UN style socialists and cannot be
trusted, Jimmy carter included and especially.
The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it
doesn't
respect democracies. Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
election.
Allende presided over yet another failed Socialist/Communist regime and
represented a danger to US interests and the free world in general.
Strider
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
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| User: "Barbarossa" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 12:24:52 PM |
|
|
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4124b778$1_1@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4124adb9$0$3544$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"You Know Who" <Kerrysucks@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:IcXUc.53623$ih.9161@fed1read07...
Ignoramus22762 wrote:
Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a realist.
1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor,
has
backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a
tad
more.
2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor will
last
only as long as high oil prices.
3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the
stupid
and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually hurt
the US standing instead of enhancing it.
He won through fraud. Most Venezuelans hate the *****. He is
importing
Cubans and Colombians
as his muscle.
Yes, sure. As soon a left politician wins an election it must be fraud!
That's the way it works.
Nope, that's the way you are brainwashed by reacionairy far-right forces.
How strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote fair,
so
without
having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you
know
better than those international observers?
"International observers" tend toward UN style socialists and cannot be
trusted, Jimmy carter included and especially.
And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
Please, before you even think of mingling into foreign elections or recalls,
please make sure you have your own house in order will you? Remember the
Florida disaster during the elections of November 2000? And then you want
to teach the world about elections, recalls and all kinds of results? Shees!
Former president Carter can at least present his Nobel-price for peace,
what can your president actually present? More wars to come! More
bodybags and the misery on the families.
The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it
doesn't
respect democracies. Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
election.
Allende presided over yet another failed Socialist/Communist regime and
represented a danger to US interests and the free world in general.
A small country in South America imposes a thread to US interests and the
free world in general. Where did we hear those lies as well? Saddam was
a threat to US interests and the free world no? Where are the WMD? The
only thing the US promotes, but also cannot stand is free trade. See, Iraq
was planning to sell it's oil to Russia, France and Germany. That was the
reason Bush and his clan lied to the world about a so called threat, about
so called links between Hussain and Al Quaida and so called WMD. Nothing
the Bush clan claimed was actually the truth and then you come here with a
straight face claiming that the international observators in Venezuela
cannot
be trusted. I know one thing and that is that the USA government cannot be
trusted anymore. They wage wars for drugs and oil and call it a war on
terror.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
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| User: "Strider" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 12:51:16 PM |
|
|
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4124e257$0$327$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4124b778$1_1@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4124adb9$0$3544$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"You Know Who" <Kerrysucks@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:IcXUc.53623$ih.9161@fed1read07...
Ignoramus22762 wrote:
Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a
realist.
1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the poor,
has
backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared a
tad
more.
2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor will
last
only as long as high oil prices.
3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the
stupid
and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually
hurt
the US standing instead of enhancing it.
He won through fraud. Most Venezuelans hate the *****. He is
importing
Cubans and Colombians
as his muscle.
Yes, sure. As soon a left politician wins an election it must be
fraud!
That's the way it works.
Nope, that's the way you are brainwashed by reacionairy far-right forces.
Nope. If a Socialist/Communist can't cheat in an election, they just kill
the opposition.
How strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote
fair,
so
without
having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that you
know
better than those international observers?
"International observers" tend toward UN style socialists and cannot be
trusted, Jimmy carter included and especially.
And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
Ask your Communist buddy Kerry. He thought they were there, too.
in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
Please, before you even think of mingling into foreign elections or
recalls,
please make sure you have your own house in order will you? Remember the
Florida disaster during the elections of November 2000? And then you want
to teach the world about elections, recalls and all kinds of results?
Shees!
Former president Carter can at least present his Nobel-price for peace,
what can your president actually present? More wars to come! More
bodybags and the misery on the families.
The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it
doesn't
respect democracies. Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
election.
Allende presided over yet another failed Socialist/Communist regime and
represented a danger to US interests and the free world in general.
A small country in South America imposes a thread to US interests and the
free world in general. Where did we hear those lies as well? Saddam was
a threat to US interests and the free world no? Where are the WMD? The
only thing the US promotes, but also cannot stand is free trade. See, Iraq
was planning to sell it's oil to Russia, France and Germany. That was the
reason Bush and his clan lied to the world about a so called threat, about
so called links between Hussain and Al Quaida and so called WMD. Nothing
the Bush clan claimed was actually the truth and then you come here with a
straight face claiming that the international observators in Venezuela
cannot
be trusted. I know one thing and that is that the USA government cannot be
trusted anymore. They wage wars for drugs and oil and call it a war on
terror.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Communism was a failed system from the start. Anyone still clinging to that
dead horse need to be buried with it.
Strider
.
|
|
|
| User: "Barbarossa" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 05:32:39 PM |
|
|
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4124e8ba$1_2@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4124e257$0$327$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4124b778$1_1@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:4124adb9$0$3544$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"You Know Who" <Kerrysucks@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:IcXUc.53623$ih.9161@fed1read07...
Ignoramus22762 wrote:
Some random notes here, from someone who is trying to be a
realist.
1. The "elite" attempt to steal as much as possible from the
poor,
has
backfired and by now, they realized that they should have shared
a
tad
more.
2. This newfangled shower of socialized benefits to the poor
will
last
only as long as high oil prices.
3. The administration of George W Bush alienated Venezuelans by
supporting the anti-Chavez coup a few years ago. As usual, the
stupid
and doctrinaire policies of this alcoholic president, actually
hurt
the US standing instead of enhancing it.
He won through fraud. Most Venezuelans hate the *****. He is
importing
Cubans and Colombians
as his muscle.
Yes, sure. As soon a left politician wins an election it must be
fraud!
That's the way it works.
Nope, that's the way you are brainwashed by reacionairy far-right
forces.
Nope. If a Socialist/Communist can't cheat in an election, they just kill
the opposition.
How strange! International observers have declared the recall-vote
fair,
so
without
having been in Venezuela you actually have the nerve to say that
you
know
better than those international observers?
"International observers" tend toward UN style socialists and cannot
be
trusted, Jimmy carter included and especially.
And your precious president Bush can be trusted? OK, where are the WMD
Ask your Communist buddy Kerry. He thought they were there, too.
If you think that Kerry, as a member of Skull and Bones could be my buddy
and
if you also think that Kerry is a communist then you have a real big problem
with
reality. Even Ralph Nader isn't a communist. Of course Kerry told the same
lies Bush, Powell, Cheney, Rice and others of the satanic Freemasonry and
Skull
and Bones. He's a Skull and Bones member, so he is in the conspiracy to lie
to
the UN. I am Belgian/Dutch, I would not vote for either candidate, knowing
they
are both members of Skull and Bones and Freemasonry and therefore cannot be
trusted.
in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell,
Cheney,
Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
Please, before you even think of mingling into foreign elections or
recalls,
please make sure you have your own house in order will you? Remember the
Florida disaster during the elections of November 2000? And then you
want
to teach the world about elections, recalls and all kinds of results?
Shees!
Former president Carter can at least present his Nobel-price for peace,
what can your president actually present? More wars to come! More
bodybags and the misery on the families.
The problem with the USA is that it claims to be democratic, but it
doesn't
respect democracies. Remember Allende in Chile 1973? He also won an
election.
Allende presided over yet another failed Socialist/Communist regime
and
represented a danger to US interests and the free world in general.
A small country in South America imposes a thread to US interests and
the
free world in general. Where did we hear those lies as well? Saddam was
a threat to US interests and the free world no? Where are the WMD? The
only thing the US promotes, but also cannot stand is free trade. See,
Iraq
was planning to sell it's oil to Russia, France and Germany. That was
the
reason Bush and his clan lied to the world about a so called threat,
about
so called links between Hussain and Al Quaida and so called WMD. Nothing
the Bush clan claimed was actually the truth and then you come here with
a
straight face claiming that the international observators in Venezuela
cannot
be trusted. I know one thing and that is that the USA government cannot
be
trusted anymore. They wage wars for drugs and oil and call it a war on
terror.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
Communism was a failed system from the start. Anyone still clinging to
that
dead horse need to be buried with it.
Then you have a big problem, because strictly speaking pure marxist
communism
has never been anywhere on this planet.
.
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| User: "Strider" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
20 Aug 2004 07:44:31 AM |
|
|
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
That explains much.
strider
.
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| User: "Barbarossa" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
20 Aug 2004 11:52:26 AM |
|
|
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4125f255$1_2@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
Nope, you have a problem with understanding economies, you have a big
problem with history, you have no idea what you are talking about and you
have a big problem with reality. I seriously urge you to seek immediate
help!
What kind of education did you have?
That explains much.
See, above!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
.
|
|
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| User: "Strider" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
23 Aug 2004 08:52:33 AM |
|
|
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41262c3b$0$3558$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4125f255$1_2@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
Nope, you have a problem with understanding economies, you have a big
problem with history, you have no idea what you are talking about and you
have a big problem with reality. I seriously urge you to seek immediate
help!
Socialism is merely communism lite. Socialist think that NEARLY everything
belongs to the government.
What kind of education did you have?
BBA
That explains much.
See, above!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
You Eurotrash lost all your moral stature when you let the Nazi's, then the
Communists, take over. You will remain a continent of second rate nations,
living in the imagined glory of the past.
Strider
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| User: "Barbarossa" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
23 Aug 2004 01:01:50 PM |
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"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4129f6c8$1_2@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41262c3b$0$3558$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4125f255$1_2@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
Nope, you have a problem with understanding economies, you have a big
problem with history, you have no idea what you are talking about and
you
have a big problem with reality. I seriously urge you to seek immediate
help!
Socialism is merely communism lite. Socialist think that NEARLY everything
belongs to the government.
Socialism is pretty different from communism, see other post.
What kind of education did you have?
BBA
Really, and that is?
That explains much.
See, above!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
You Eurotrash lost all your moral stature when you let the Nazi's, then
the
Communists, take over. You will remain a continent of second rate nations,
living in the imagined glory of the past.
The only ones responsible for the rise of Hitler are the American leaders
who
really humiliated the Germans by their Dawes plan and Young plan so that
their
economy collapsed and then the Nazis became popular and got funded by the
most multinationals in the USA. The USA caused the rise of Hitler. Without
the USA Hitler would never have been in power. After WW2 many Nazis
got a safe haven in the USA industries.
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
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| User: "Strider" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
23 Aug 2004 01:10:31 PM |
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"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:412a30fe$0$3888$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4129f6c8$1_2@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41262c3b$0$3558$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4125f255$1_2@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
Nope, you have a problem with understanding economies, you have a big
problem with history, you have no idea what you are talking about and
you
have a big problem with reality. I seriously urge you to seek
immediate
help!
Socialism is merely communism lite. Socialist think that NEARLY
everything
belongs to the government.
Socialism is pretty different from communism, see other post.
Barely different.
What kind of education did you have?
BBA
Really, and that is?
Bachelor of Business Administration.
That explains much.
See, above!
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
You Eurotrash lost all your moral stature when you let the Nazi's, then
the
Communists, take over. You will remain a continent of second rate
nations,
living in the imagined glory of the past.
The only ones responsible for the rise of Hitler are the American leaders
who
really humiliated the Germans by their Dawes plan and Young plan so that
their
economy collapsed and then the Nazis became popular and got funded by the
most multinationals in the USA. The USA caused the rise of Hitler. Without
the USA Hitler would never have been in power. After WW2 many Nazis
got a safe haven in the USA industries.
I would suit me just fine if the Germans had kept all of Europe. at least we
would have had only one enemy to deal with in that rat hole.
Strider
Kind Regards,
Barbarossa
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| User: "Gunner" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
23 Aug 2004 01:45:50 PM |
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On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:10:31 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
Socialism is pretty different from communism, see other post.
Barely different.
"What is socialism? According to Marxist doctrine, socialism is a
stage of society between capitalism and communism where private
ownership and control over property are eliminated. The essence of
socialism is the attenuation and ultimate abolition of private
property rights. Attacks on private property include, but are not
limited to, confiscating the rightful property of one person and
giving it to another to whom it doesn't belong. When this is done
privately, we call it theft. When it's done collectively, we use
euphemisms: income transfers or redistribution.." --Walter Williams
"The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption.
The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is
made up of government unions, government dependent professions
(teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and
special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that
feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies,
African Americans being the most prominent, who are
disproportionately invested in government jobs and
in programs that government provides.
" The Democratic Party credo is 'Take as much of the people's money as politically feasible, and use that money to buy as many of the people's votes as possible'.
Tax cuts are a threat to this Democratic agenda.
Consequently, Democrats loathe and despise them."
-Semi-reformed Leftist David Horowitz
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
24 Aug 2004 04:59:54 PM |
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Strider wrote:
Snippage<<<<<<<<
I would suit me just fine if the Germans had kept all of Europe. at least we
would have had only one enemy to deal with in that rat hole.
Why did Henry Ford, Prescott Bush, amongst others in the US, help
finance Hitler ?
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
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| User: "Gunner" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
24 Aug 2004 08:23:59 PM |
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:59:54 +0100, Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Strider wrote:
Snippage<<<<<<<<
I would suit me just fine if the Germans had kept all of Europe. at least we
would have had only one enemy to deal with in that rat hole.
Why did Henry Ford, Prescott Bush, amongst others in the US, help
finance Hitler ?
For the same reason they financed the Soviets, the French, the Brits
etc etc.
Because business is business. War is bad for business so when war is
gonna happen, you either try to stop it, or get out of the way
promptly with as many of your assets intact as possible.
Your question is spun. The above fellows financed Germany and German
industry. Hitler missued the ***** out of it, but late in the game.
However, it is true the Henry Ford did approve of Facism in its pure
form, simply because of the labor issues of facist industry and the
fact that Facism is is defined as government working hand in hand with
the business owners in governing a country. Oligarchy in many
respects.
You can also add the Swiss to the above question, and see what
ramifications come of that as well. Care to think about it for a bit?
Gunner
No 220-pound thug can threaten the well-being or dignity of a 110-pound
woman who has two pounds of iron to even things out. Is that evil?
Is that wrong? People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence,
they're begging for the rule of brute force, when the biggest, strongest
animals among men were always automatically "right". Guns end that,
and social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make
it work.
- L. Neil Smith
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| User: "Cuan" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
25 Aug 2004 02:06:42 AM |
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:59:54 +0100, Jez
<iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Strider wrote:
Snippage<<<<<<<<
I would suit me just fine if the Germans had kept all of Europe. at least we
would have had only one enemy to deal with in that rat hole.
Why did Henry Ford, Prescott Bush, amongst others in the US, help
finance Hitler ?
good point.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
24 Aug 2004 04:58:14 PM |
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Strider wrote:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41262c3b$0$3558$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
"Strider" <strider@usit.net> schreef in bericht
news:4125f255$1_2@news.unc.edu...
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
You Eurotrash lost all your moral stature when you let the Nazi's, then the
Communists, take over.
We didn't *****....we fought the fuckers......Remember the UK is part
of Europe.
You will remain a continent of second rate nations,
living in the imagined glory of the past.
Whereas you live in a country that tries to copy our Empire, but have
neither the tact nor intelligence to manage such a thing.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
20 Aug 2004 08:32:04 AM |
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
That explains much.
That explains much.
strider
.
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| User: "Strider" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
20 Aug 2004 11:21:45 AM |
|
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:d9vbi0ph0om6g05nqgr5ff3opkdv48p81k@4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
Bigotry is predjudice against a person of the human race. Eurotrash do not
apply.
Strider
That explains much.
That explains much.
strider
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
20 Aug 2004 02:53:13 PM |
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:21:45 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:d9vbi0ph0om6g05nqgr5ff3opkdv48p81k@4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
Bigotry is predjudice against a person of the human race. Eurotrash do not
apply.
Thank you for making my point for me.
.
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| User: "Strider" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
23 Aug 2004 08:56:53 AM |
|
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"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:cklci0pidaftnvm9lscho63i388l1pc5ep@4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:21:45 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:d9vbi0ph0om6g05nqgr5ff3opkdv48p81k@4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
Bigotry is predjudice against a person of the human race. Eurotrash do
not
apply.
Thank you for making my point for me.
If you had a point you would be naked, sitting on it.
Strider
.
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| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
20 Aug 2004 12:34:45 PM |
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Strider wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:d9vbi0ph0om6g05nqgr5ff3opkdv48p81k@4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
Bigotry is predjudice against a person of the human race. Eurotrash do not
apply.
Fucking idiot.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
|
|
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| User: "Strider" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
23 Aug 2004 08:55:55 AM |
|
|
"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:4126364f$0$20257$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
Strider wrote:
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:d9vbi0ph0om6g05nqgr5ff3opkdv48p81k@4ax.com...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
Bigotry is predjudice against a person of the human race. Eurotrash do
not
apply.
Fucking idiot.
You had a typo. This should have read "Jez, Fucking Idiot."
Anyone who fucks a European is fucks an idiot.
Strider
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
|
|
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| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
24 Aug 2004 04:55:47 PM |
|
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Strider wrote:
"Jez" <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:4126364f$0$20257$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
Bigotry is predjudice against a person of the human race. Eurotrash do
not
apply.
Fucking idiot.
You had a typo. This should have read "Jez, Fucking Idiot."
Anyone who fucks a European is fucks an idiot.
ah, you just keep proving my point.
Now go away and play with yourself.....fucking idiot.
--
Jez
"The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious,
of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man. Society
highly values its normal man.It educates children to lose themselves
and to become absurd,and thus to be normal. Normal men have killed
perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years."
R.D. Laing
.
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| User: "Vanilla Gorilla Monkey Boy" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
20 Aug 2004 09:50:55 AM |
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:32:04 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<d9vbi0ph0om6g05nqgr5ff3opkdv48p81k@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:44:31 -0400, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>
wrote:
"Barbarossa" <fa073505@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:41252a79$0$4079$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
***snip***
So you are Communist Eurotrash.
So you're a lying bigot as well as an all-too-typical sociopathic
American.
Mee too!
--
V.G.
Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"I wanted a car I could run down pedestrians with. But one with a comfy ride, like a sofa on wheels." - Father Haskell
"No doubt about it, 9-11 was orchestrated by Lockheed." - *lexa 'connects the dots' 4/27/04 (cg5t80pl73d7r1s8113tqd19qse0ji0nrq@4ax.com)
"Nope, Lockheed provided the cover for 9-11 due to abuses of it's system. They're guilty as charged. But ultimately it was Bechtel who concocted the
9-11 events." Alexa connects some totally different dots. 8/6/04 (n3p8h0lvp0u3tj0j4vi7gjmo069gb96fhm@4ax.com)
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.
.
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| User: "Randy Day" |
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| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 12:32:49 PM |
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Barbarossa wrote:
[snip]
in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
Don't get too complacent, then; ISTR
someone mentioning that Kerry is a
member, too.
--
R
Atheist Chair,
EAC Disciplinary Committee
.
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| User: "Vanilla Gorilla Monkey Boy" |
|
| Title: Re: Why Hugo Chavez Won a Landslide Victory |
19 Aug 2004 09:24:34 PM |
|
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On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:32:49 -0600, Randy Day <ruthal@sasktel.nex>
wrote in alt.fan.art-bell in message
<10i9p67lmv1ml33@corp.supernews.com>:
Barbarossa wrote:
[snip]
in Iraq. The only ones lying to the entire world are Bush, Powell, Cheney,
Rice and the rest of the satanic Freemasonry- and Skull and Bones club.
Don't get too complacent, then; ISTR
someone mentioning that Kerry is a
member, too.
Shhhh... It's a secret!
--
V.G.
Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"I wanted a car I could run down pedestrians with. But one with a comfy ride, like a sofa on wheels." - Father Haskell
"No doubt about it, 9-11 was orchestrated by Lockheed." - *lexa 'connects the dots' 4/27/04 (cg5t80pl73d7r1s8113tqd19qse0ji0nrq@4ax.com)
"Nope, Lockheed provided the cover for 9-11 due to abuses of it's system. They're guilty as charged. But ultimately it was Bechtel who concocted the
9-11 events." Alexa connects some totally different dots. 8/6/04 (n3p8h0lvp0u3tj0j4vi7gjmo069gb96fhm@4ax.com)
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.
.
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