Why the US must lose The War



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Topic: Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus
User: ""
Date: 17 Feb 2005 02:27:18 AM
Object: Why the US must lose The War
Why we must lose this war
by Jack Lessenberry
02/09/05 "Metro Times" - - Gwynne Dyer isn’t exactly a wimp. Not many
guys from Newfoundland are. Born during World War II, he has been
fascinated by things military all his life, and has served in three
navies — ours, Canada’s and Great Britain’s. He has university degrees
from all three countries too, and a Ph.D. in military and Middle
Eastern history. During the 1980s, he produced and narrated the best
documentary series about the nature of war that I’ve ever seen.
And here’s what he says about what we are doing:
“The United States needs to lose the war in Iraq as soon as possible.
Even more urgently, the whole world needs the United States to lose
the war in Iraq. What is at stake now is the way we run the world for
the next generation or more, and really bad things will happen if we
get it wrong.”
Those are the opening lines of his latest and perhaps most important
book, Future Tense: The Coming World Order (paperback, McClelland and
Stewart, $12.95). If you plan on reading only one book this year, make
this the one. In perfectly clear prose, with arguments as
well-researched as they are compelling, this military expert explains
why what we’re doing is mad.
He explains how we haven’t grasped that the world has changed, that we
aren’t living in our old superpower world anymore, one in which we’re
the leader of the forces of light against the evil dark powers of
communism. Nor are we, in fact, even a military superpower in the way
we like to think we are; in reality, our military machine can only be
used against very weak countries. As he notes, “War with a serious
opponent would lead to a level of American casualties that the U.S.
public would not tolerate for long.”
What the world needs most in the long run (if there’s to be a long
run), he reminds us, is a stable international order in which all
nations gradually work on abandoning war as an acceptable way of
settling any differences. Dyer isn’t starry-eyed about this; he thinks
it will take a hundred years at least to get major countries to stop
resorting to war, “for it is trying to change international habits
that had at least 5,000 years to take root.”
That, he reminds us, is the whole purpose of the United Nations, which
we played the major role in starting exactly 60 years ago this spring.
Yes, we’ve resorted to war before, as have other countries, but we
always at least pretended that what we were doing was legally
justified by international standards.
Now, however, the current administration is essentially spitting on
this, and openly proclaiming our right to intervene unilaterally
anywhere we want. Why is that so bad? Because others will do it too,
and, eventually, it will break down even the ideal of an international
order, causing a general return to “the old world of alliances, arms
races and all the other old baggage.”
Dyer writes, “No other major power wants to abandon the project to
outlaw war … but if the world’s greatest power becomes a rogue state,
they won’t have much choice.” Some days, it appears we’ve already
crossed the line.
Interestingly, if that happens, we may not be able to afford to be a
rogue state for very long. In what’s surely the most telling and
terrifying part of this book, the author takes on the most frightening
topic of all — the real condition of the American economy, which is
now totally dependent on foreign investment.
You’d scarcely know it from the “mainstream media,” but we’re now the
biggest debtor nation in history, owing far more to foreign countries
than they do to us, and running up $500 billion more on our “credit
card” every year.
Why does this go on? Dyer argues what other economists have told me in
whispers: “The U.S. economy is a confidence trick based on everybody
else’s perception that the United States is centrally important for
the world’s security and that its economy is centrally important for
the world economy.”
That was absolutely true in 1945, and largely true even in 1985. But
not anymore. If you look at only those foreign investments that could
be liquidated fairly quickly, the total, he estimates, would come to
about $8 trillion. If those investments started to move elsewhere, the
value of the dollar could be cut in half, Dyer estimates, overnight.
That would mean not only no more Lincoln Navigators, it more than
likely would lead to the end of democracy as we know it. Which would
be especially unfortunate since, as he notes, “global warming and
other environmental problems are going to hit us very hard over the
next 50 years.”
“How fast they hit and how great the resulting upheavals will be
cannot be known in advance, but very few people apart from the usual
suspects in the United States any longer doubt that climate change is
a reality.”
Incidentally, if you’re tempted to tell me why Gwynne Dyer is all
wrong, I’ll be willing to listen — but not if you haven’t read this
book first.
.

User: "R. Foreman"

Title: Re: Why the US must lose The War 17 Feb 2005 07:30:24 PM
Spat the Words

Why we must lose this war

by Jack Lessenberry

02/09/05 "Metro Times" - - Gwynne Dyer isn’t exactly a wimp. Not many
guys from Newfoundland are. Born during World War II, he has been
fascinated by things military all his life, and has served in three
navies — ours, Canada’s and Great Britain’s. He has university
degrees from all three countries too, and a Ph.D. in military and Middle
Eastern history. During the 1980s, he produced and narrated the best
documentary series about the nature of war that I’ve ever seen.

And here’s what he says about what we are doing:

“The United States needs to lose the war in Iraq as soon as possible.
Even more urgently, the whole world needs the United States to lose
the war in Iraq. What is at stake now is the way we run the world for
the next generation or more, and really bad things will happen if we
get it wrong.”

Is he trying to change the future ? What happens if the US
doesn't 'lose the war in Iraq' ? Just exactly how does he define
the US losing the Iraq war ?


Those are the opening lines of his latest and perhaps most important
book, Future Tense: The Coming World Order (paperback, McClelland and
Stewart, $12.95). If you plan on reading only one book this year, make
this the one. In perfectly clear prose, with arguments as
well-researched as they are compelling, this military expert explains
why what we’re doing is mad.

He explains how we haven’t grasped that the world has changed, that we
aren’t living in our old superpower world anymore, one in which
we’re the leader of the forces of light against the evil dark powers
of communism. Nor are we, in fact, even a military superpower in the way
we like to think we are; in reality, our military machine can only be
used against very weak countries. As he notes, “War with a serious
opponent would lead to a level of American casualties that the U.S.
public would not tolerate for long.”

He'd be surprised what we can put up with for legitimate reasons.


What the world needs most in the long run (if there’s to be a long
run), he reminds us, is a stable international order in which all
nations gradually work on abandoning war as an acceptable way of
settling any differences. Dyer isn’t starry-eyed about this; he thinks
it will take a hundred years at least to get major countries to stop
resorting to war, “for it is trying to change international habits
that had at least 5,000 years to take root.”

That, he reminds us, is the whole purpose of the United Nations, which
we played the major role in starting exactly 60 years ago this spring.
Yes, we’ve resorted to war before, as have other countries, but we
always at least pretended that what we were doing was legally
justified by international standards.

Now, however, the current administration is essentially spitting on
this, and openly proclaiming our right to intervene unilaterally
anywhere we want. Why is that so bad? Because others will do it too,
and, eventually, it will break down even the ideal of an international
order, causing a general return to “the old world of alliances, arms
races and all the other old baggage.”

Dyer writes, “No other major power wants to abandon the project to
outlaw war … but if the world’s greatest power becomes a rogue
state, they won’t have much choice.” Some days, it appears we’ve
already crossed the line.

Interestingly, if that happens, we may not be able to afford to be a
rogue state for very long. In what’s surely the most telling and
terrifying part of this book, the author takes on the most frightening
topic of all — the real condition of the American economy, which is
now totally dependent on foreign investment.

And many countries are almost entirely dependent on the US market
to sell it's products. Also, US technology workers are in heavy
demand in some countres, for example, the gulf oil states require
engineers and oil field resources companies to make their economy
work at all. It's a balance of sorts... we need you, and you need
us... symbiosis.


You’d scarcely know it from the “mainstream media,” but we’re
now the biggest debtor nation in history, owing far more to foreign
countries than they do to us, and running up $500 billion more on our
“credit card” every year.

True. After WWII we went steadily downhill in the production of
goods. Now we're mostly a services nation, and presently we're
flooding the world with dollars (and everyone is still buying
them).


Why does this go on? Dyer argues what other economists have told me in
whispers: “The U.S. economy is a confidence trick based on everybody
else’s perception that the United States is centrally important for
the world’s security and that its economy is centrally important for
the world economy.”

If a business concern wishes to trade with some country other
than the US, they should just do it.
The reality on the ground right now is the US is consumption
starved, ie we can't get enough of goods and services, and we're
going heavily into debt satisfying that drive. The rest of the
world is demand starved, ie they can't sell enough of their goods
and services, and the US is their biggest market.


That was absolutely true in 1945, and largely true even in 1985. But
not anymore. If you look at only those foreign investments that could
be liquidated fairly quickly, the total, he estimates, would come to
about $8 trillion. If those investments started to move elsewhere, the
value of the dollar could be cut in half, Dyer estimates, overnight.

That's the big concern, but if that were to happen the US market
for foreign goods and services would dry up and non-US countries
would spiral into an economic slump. If the non-US world wants to
rid itself from US dependency, they should try growing their own
economies a little faster.


That would mean not only no more Lincoln Navigators, it more than
likely would lead to the end of democracy as we know it. Which would
be especially unfortunate since, as he notes, “global warming and
other environmental problems are going to hit us very hard over the
next 50 years.”

“How fast they hit and how great the resulting upheavals will be
cannot be known in advance, but very few people apart from the usual
suspects in the United States any longer doubt that climate change is
a reality.”

Worse than that, what happens when the world starts running short
of vital resources, lumber, gas, heating oil, drinking water,
breathable air. Then MIGHT really will make RIGHT.


Incidentally, if you’re tempted to tell me why Gwynne Dyer is all
wrong, I’ll be willing to listen — but not if you haven’t read
this book first.

That's a bit self righteous. I have to buy his book or he won't
listen to my ideas ?




.
User: "K. Miller"

Title: Re: Why the US must lose The War 18 Feb 2005 01:18:08 AM
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I hate to admit it, but your are absolutely right. Canada is the one =
that is at fault for becoming completely dependant on selling its =
'wares' to the United States. Although, recently (due to the rise in the =
Canadian dollar) we have diversified our markets, Canada has no one else =
but themselves to blame for their current dependancy on American =
consumers.
PS: I also agree that the War scenario of this thread is wrong - its not =
a case of America losing the war in Iraq, but America's military over =
extending itself in 'overseas activities' so that it cannot properly =
protect its on Homefront !!!
kmiller
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C51560.170B08D0
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>I hate to admit it, but your =
are&nbsp;absolutely=20
right. Canada is the one that is at fault for becoming completely =
dependant on=20
selling its 'wares' to the United States. </FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>Although, recently (due to the rise in the Canadian dollar) we =
have=20
diversified our markets, Canada has no one else but themselves to blame =
for=20
their current dependancy on American consumers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>PS: I also agree that the War scenario =
of this=20
thread is wrong - its not a case of America losing the war in Iraq, but=20
America's military&nbsp;over extending itself in 'overseas activities' =
so that=20
it cannot properly protect its on Homefront !!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>kmiller</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C51560.170B08D0--
.


User: ""

Title: Re: Why the US must lose The War 17 Feb 2005 04:38:01 PM
Oh we all wish to live in perfect world, but the fact is it is run by
crooks and idiots and hoping for a good outcome is well dreaming.
Expect the worst and hope for the best, is that not how you live your
life.
Helps if you have smart folk running the show, none of them would get
entry to MENSA.
LB
.


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