The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists - Robert McNamara, in his memoirs entitled "In
Retrospect: The Tradegy and Lessons of Vietnam" said that there were
several major causes for America's disaster in Vietnam and he listed
them thus:
To quote his own words:
1. We misjudged then - as we have since - the geopolitical
intentions of our adversaries (North Vietnam and the Vietcong,
supported by China and the Soviet Union) and we exaggerated the
dangers to the United States of their actions.
2. We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of
our own experience. We totally misjudged the political forces
within the country.
3. We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate the
people to fight and die for their beliefs and values - and we
continue to do so today in many parts of the world.
4. Our misjudgements of friend and foe alike reflected our
profound ignorance of the history, culture and politics of the
people in the area...
5. We failed then - as we have since - to recognise the
limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces
and doctrine in confronting unconventional, highly motivated
peoples' movements. We failed as well to adapt our military
tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people
from a totally different culture.
6. We failed to retain popular support in part because we did not
explain fully what was happening and why we were doing what we
did.
7. We did not recognise that neither our people nor our leaders
are omniscient. Where our own security is not directly at stake,
our judgement of what is in another' people's or country's best
interest should be put to the test of open discussion in
international forums. We do not have the God-given right to
shape every nation in our own image or as we choose.
8. We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action -
other than in response to direct threats to our own security
should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational
forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the
international community.
9. We failed to recognise that in international affairs, as in
other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are
no immediate solutions. For one whose life has been dedicated to
the belief and practice of problem-solving, this is particularly
hard to admit.
10. Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organise
the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with
the extraordinarily complex range of political and military
issues....
Do any of these points ring a bell for anyone?
WH
.
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| User: "eric davis" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
20 Nov 2004 06:02:09 PM |
|
|
"bollogs" <bollogs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists - Robert McNamara, in his memoirs entitled "In
Retrospect: The Tradegy and Lessons of Vietnam" said that there were
several major causes for America's disaster in Vietnam and he listed
them thus:
To quote his own words:
1. We misjudged then - as we have since - the geopolitical
intentions of our adversaries (North Vietnam and the Vietcong,
supported by China and the Soviet Union) and we exaggerated the
dangers to the United States of their actions.
2. We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of
our own experience. We totally misjudged the political forces
within the country.
3. We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate the
people to fight and die for their beliefs and values - and we
continue to do so today in many parts of the world.
4. Our misjudgements of friend and foe alike reflected our
profound ignorance of the history, culture and politics of the
people in the area...
5. We failed then - as we have since - to recognise the
limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces
and doctrine in confronting unconventional, highly motivated
peoples' movements. We failed as well to adapt our military
tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people
from a totally different culture.
6. We failed to retain popular support in part because we did not
explain fully what was happening and why we were doing what we
did.
7. We did not recognise that neither our people nor our leaders
are omniscient. Where our own security is not directly at stake,
our judgement of what is in another' people's or country's best
interest should be put to the test of open discussion in
international forums. We do not have the God-given right to
shape every nation in our own image or as we choose.
8. We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action -
other than in response to direct threats to our own security
should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational
forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the
international community.
9. We failed to recognise that in international affairs, as in
other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are
no immediate solutions. For one whose life has been dedicated to
the belief and practice of problem-solving, this is particularly
hard to admit.
10. Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organise
the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with
the extraordinarily complex range of political and military
issues....
Do any of these points ring a bell for anyone?
WH
Yes. Except for #6
" 6. We failed to retain popular support in part because we did not
explain fully what was happening and why we were doing what we
did."
The Bush Administration DID explain FULLY what was happening, and why they
were doing it. However, they were also LYING. We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news viewers)
know it.
eric.
.
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| User: "R. Foreman" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
22 Nov 2004 02:25:16 AM |
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"eric davis" <ericdavis500@hotmail.com> Spat the Words
Do any of these points ring a bell for anyone?
WH
Yes. Except for #6
" 6. We failed to retain popular support in part because we did not
explain fully what was happening and why we were doing what we
did."
The Bush Administration DID explain FULLY what was happening, and why they
were doing it. However, they were also LYING. We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news viewers)
know it.
eric.
Aside from ignoring and suppressing all evidence that may have
argued against a war, it's likely some of the so-called 'bad
intelligence' was just stuff "Made Up" by the Bush spin meistros.
Bush has lost all credibility with half the US and most of the
world.
.
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| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
22 Nov 2004 06:37:23 PM |
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"R. Foreman" <eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns95A9E74E3D4Arrfkwrantispamattbic@204.127.199.17>...
"eric davis" <ericdavis500@hotmail.com> Spat the Words
Do any of these points ring a bell for anyone?
WH
Yes. Except for #6
" 6. We failed to retain popular support in part because we did not
explain fully what was happening and why we were doing what we
did."
The Bush Administration DID explain FULLY what was happening, and why they
were doing it. However, they were also LYING. We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news viewers)
know it.
eric.
Aside from ignoring and suppressing all evidence that may have
argued against a war, it's likely some of the so-called 'bad
intelligence' was just stuff "Made Up" by the Bush spin meistros.
Bush has lost all credibility with half the US and most of the
world.
"half the US ?"
Clinton 43% of vote 1st election
Clinton 49% of vote 2nd election.
I know what you are talking about Fartman ;)
.
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
22 Nov 2004 08:51:24 AM |
|
|
"R. Foreman" >eidpers@anti-spam.comcast.net
wrote:
Aside from ignoring and suppressing all evidence that may have
argued against a war, it's likely some of >the so-called 'bad
intelligence' was just stuff "Made Up" by >the Bush spin meistros.
Bush has lost all credibility with half the >US and most of the world.
In reality President Bush gained support and credibility with a record
60,000,000 votes in 2004.
Tony
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
20 Nov 2004 10:27:16 PM |
|
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"eric davis"
wrote:
We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news viewers)
know it.
So I guess Fox News has over 60,000,000 viewers?
Tony
.
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| User: "eric davis" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 05:23:16 AM |
|
|
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041120232716.08318.00001101@mb-m04.aol.com...
"eric davis"
wrote:
We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news
viewers)
know it.
So I guess Fox News has over 60,000,000 viewers?
Tony
Hardly, Stooge. Millions of Americans know they were lied to, and don't
care.
eric.
.
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 07:20:50 AM |
|
|
"eric davis"
wrote:
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041120232716.08318.00001101@mb-m04.aol.com...
"eric davis"
wrote:
We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news
viewers)
know it.
So I guess Fox News has over 60,000,000 viewers?
Tony
Hardly, Stooge. Millions of Americans >know they were lied to, and don't
care.
eric.
Well, Clown, the President got over 60,000,000 votes, and you said that FOX
news viewers were the only one who didn't know they were lied too.
Tony
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| User: "eric davis" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 11:32:46 AM |
|
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"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041121082050.08086.00001006@mb-m05.aol.com...
"eric davis"
wrote:
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041120232716.08318.00001101@mb-m04.aol.com...
"eric davis"
wrote:
We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news
viewers)
know it.
So I guess Fox News has over 60,000,000 viewers?
Tony
Hardly, Stooge. Millions of Americans >know they were lied to, and don't
care.
eric.
Well, Clown, the President got over 60,000,000 votes, and you said that
FOX
news viewers were the only one who didn't know they were lied too.
Tony
Like I said, millions of people voted for Bush KNOWING they were lied to.
That concept seems a little complicated for your comprehension, but then
again you are one of the 3 Stooges, so that's not surprising. Now, it's
beside the point, and completely irrelevant, but I never said that Fox news
viewers were the ONLY ones who didn't know they were lied to.
eric.
.
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| User: "Anon Ymous" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 07:54:09 PM |
|
|
"eric davis" <> wrote in message news:<oI1od.7275$Le1.35436@news20.bellglobal.com>...
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041121082050.08086.00001006@mb-m05.aol.com...
"eric davis"
wrote:
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041120232716.08318.00001101@mb-m04.aol.com...
"eric davis"
wrote:
We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news
viewers)
know it.
So I guess Fox News has over 60,000,000 viewers?
Tony
Hardly, Stooge. Millions of Americans >know they were lied to, and don't
care.
eric.
Well, Clown, the President got over 60,000,000 votes, and you said that
FOX
news viewers were the only one who didn't know they were lied too.
Tony
Like I said, millions of people voted for Bush KNOWING they were lied to.
That concept seems a little complicated for your comprehension, but then
again you are one of the 3 Stooges, so that's not surprising. Now, it's
beside the point, and completely irrelevant, but I never said that Fox news
viewers were the ONLY ones who didn't know they were lied to.
Of course, eric has this great ability to see when Republican
Presidents are lying--as if they were the only ones. Guess what
sparky, Clinton told the
U.S. public the same things Bush did regarding Sadam--almost to the
letter.
Clinton was responsible for the LACK of inspectors in Iraq for
years--not Bush. Clinton gave the order to drop 600 bombs, launch 400
cruise missles and pull the inspectors out of Iraq--not Bush. The
intelligence communities, or those interests that control them, are
responsible for the lies. Bush was just
a more willing and pliable accomplice than Clinton had been.
Suggesting that
Kerry (another rich Yale grad) would have been anything different just
reinforces your black/white view of the world when everything is in
shades of grey. If our presidents and public did believe lies, they
were based on fabricated evidence trumped up and supported by
incredibly powerful defense and engergy corporations. In your case,
all it takes to fool you is your own lack of vision and intellect
combined with your bogus moral superiority.
So please, do yourself and your country a huge favor and stop talking
about
people you really know nothing aboot, and go back to watching your
cartoons.
Sheesh, if anyone in this newsgroup is a stooge, it's you.
S~
.
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| User: "Jane" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 09:04:15 PM |
|
|
"Anon Ymous" <shastaman@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:5c2e70b2.0411211754.68831d33@posting.google.com...
"eric davis" < > wrote in message
news:<oI1od.7275$Le1.35436@news20.bellglobal.com>...
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041121082050.08086.00001006@mb-m05.aol.com...
"eric davis"
wrote:
"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041120232716.08318.00001101@mb-m04.aol.com...
"eric davis"
wrote:
We know it, the World knows
it (and always did), and now, finally Americans (barring Fox news
viewers)
know it.
So I guess Fox News has over 60,000,000 viewers?
Tony
Hardly, Stooge. Millions of Americans >know they were lied to, and
don't
care.
eric.
Well, Clown, the President got over 60,000,000 votes, and you said
that
FOX
news viewers were the only one who didn't know they were lied too.
Tony
Like I said, millions of people voted for Bush KNOWING they were lied
to.
That concept seems a little complicated for your comprehension, but then
again you are one of the 3 Stooges, so that's not surprising. Now, it's
beside the point, and completely irrelevant, but I never said that Fox
news
viewers were the ONLY ones who didn't know they were lied to.
Of course, eric has this great ability to see when Republican
Presidents are lying--as if they were the only ones. Guess what
sparky, Clinton told the
U.S. public the same things Bush did regarding Sadam--almost to the
letter.
Clinton was responsible for the LACK of inspectors in Iraq for
years--not Bush. Clinton gave the order to drop 600 bombs, launch 400
cruise missles and pull the inspectors out of Iraq--not Bush. The
intelligence communities, or those interests that control them, are
responsible for the lies. Bush was just
a more willing and pliable accomplice than Clinton had been.
Suggesting that
Kerry (another rich Yale grad) would have been anything different just
reinforces your black/white view of the world when everything is in
shades of grey. If our presidents and public did believe lies, they
were based on fabricated evidence trumped up and supported by
incredibly powerful defense and engergy corporations. In your case,
all it takes to fool you is your own lack of vision and intellect
combined with your bogus moral superiority.
So please, do yourself and your country a huge favor and stop talking
about
people you really know nothing aboot, and go back to watching your
cartoons.
Sheesh, if anyone in this newsgroup is a stooge, it's you.
S~
Awesome. Thank you.
Jane
.
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| User: "Anon Ymous" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 07:36:05 PM |
|
|
(bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
Just that ignorant statement above. Rings the bell that indicates the
poster is a severely deranged America-hating bigot. Oh! Hey WH, what
a surprise.
S~
.
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| User: "bollogs" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
23 Nov 2004 02:47:00 AM |
|
|
(Anon Ymous) wrote in message news:<5c2e70b2.0411211736.6618e0f4@posting.google.com>...
bollogs@hotmail.com (bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
Just that ignorant statement above. Rings the bell that indicates the
poster is a severely deranged America-hating bigot. Oh! Hey WH, what
a surprise.
S~
Hey S~, saved any Europeans from the Soviets lately? You...you...fuckin' hero you...
WH
.
|
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| User: "Anon Ymous" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
27 Nov 2004 11:06:40 PM |
|
|
(bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411230047.234de612@posting.google.com>...
shastaman@my-deja.com (Anon Ymous) wrote in message news:<5c2e70b2.0411211736.6618e0f4@posting.google.com>...
(bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
Just that ignorant statement above. Rings the bell that indicates the
poster is a severely deranged America-hating bigot. Oh! Hey WH, what
a surprise.
S~
Hey S~, saved any Europeans from the Soviets lately? You...you...fuckin' hero you...
Hey WH, bombed any English children lately, or did you just let others
do it for you?
S~
.
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|
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| User: "bollogs" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
28 Nov 2004 09:17:45 AM |
|
|
(Anon Ymous) wrote in message news:<5c2e70b2.0411272106.22ae172a@posting.google.com>...
bollogs@hotmail.com (bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411230047.234de612@posting.google.com>...
(Anon Ymous) wrote in message news:<5c2e70b2.0411211736.6618e0f4@posting.google.com>...
bollogs@hotmail.com (bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
Just that ignorant statement above. Rings the bell that indicates the
poster is a severely deranged America-hating bigot. Oh! Hey WH, what
a surprise.
S~
Hey S~, saved any Europeans from the Soviets lately? You...you...fuckin' hero you...
Hey WH, bombed any English children lately, or did you just let others
do it for you?
S~
Silly *****! You just opened up a million ways I caould take the *****
out of you regarding Iraq...but I digress!
This thread is over for my part...*****-off!
WH
.
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| User: "Steven Douglas" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 02:06:50 AM |
|
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(bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
So you must also believe it was wrong to fight the Communists in Korea
-- and for all these years the productive and enterprising South Korea
has been free of Communism, you would have preferred to see South
Koreans suffering under the abhorrent conditions North Korea has
provided for its people?
.
|
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| User: "Anon Ymous" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 07:45:38 PM |
|
|
(Steven Douglas) wrote in message news:<a2b35e99.0411210006.51b45f04@posting.google.com>...
bollogs@hotmail.com (bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
So you must also believe it was wrong to fight the Communists in Korea
-- and for all these years the productive and enterprising South Korea
has been free of Communism, you would have preferred to see South
Koreans suffering under the abhorrent conditions North Korea has
provided for its people?
Don't let the troll bug ya too much. He is a closet communist himself and
wishes he had been lucky enough to stand in huge lines for things like
bread and toilet paper.
He's not just a bigot, but a stupid one to boot. He's angry because he's
a politically crippled Quixote and the U.S. is the only windmill left.
I pity the kids that are raised by his bitterness and ignorance.
S~
.
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| User: "bollogs" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
23 Nov 2004 02:45:10 AM |
|
|
(Anon Ymous) wrote in message news:<5c2e70b2.0411211745.1a438e94@posting.google.com>...
dsteven@flashmail.com (Steven Douglas) wrote in message news:<a2b35e99.0411210006.51b45f04@posting.google.com>...
bollogs@hotmail.com (bollogs) wrote in message news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
So you must also believe it was wrong to fight the Communists in Korea
-- and for all these years the productive and enterprising South Korea
has been free of Communism, you would have preferred to see South
Koreans suffering under the abhorrent conditions North Korea has
provided for its people?
Don't let the troll bug ya too much. He is a closet communist himself and
wishes he had been lucky enough to stand in huge lines for things like
bread and toilet paper.
He's not just a bigot, but a stupid one to boot. He's angry because he's
a politically crippled Quixote and the U.S. is the only windmill left.
I pity the kids that are raised by his bitterness and ignorance.
S~
Ha! You lost any credibility you might have had ages ago ***** when
you threw around your mad ideas that you saved Europe from the Soviets
by talking to a train conductor.
Yo're getting some good encouragement anyway from our resident *****
pantyboy. Now that must make you happy!
WH
.
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
22 Nov 2004 08:49:46 AM |
|
|
shastaman@my-deja.com
wrote:
dsteven@flashmail.com (Steven Douglas) wrote in message
news:<a2b35e99.0411210006.51b45f04@posting.google.com>...
bollogs@hotmail.com (bollogs) wrote in message
news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
So you must also believe it was wrong to fight the Communists in Korea
-- and for all these years the productive and enterprising South Korea
has been free of Communism, you would have preferred to see South
Koreans suffering under the abhorrent conditions North Korea has
provided for its people?
Don't let the troll bug ya too much.
LOL, Chris is now named "the troll".
He is a closet communist himself and
wishes he had been lucky enough to >stand in huge lines for things like
bread and toilet paper.
Not only that, he is a wannabe Muslim.
He's not just a bigot, but a stupid one to >boot. He's angry because he's
a politically crippled Quixote and the U.S. >is the only windmill left. I pity
the kids >that are raised by his bitterness and >ignorance.
S~
LOL, you're in rare form Shastaman.
Tony
.
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| User: "Tadapope" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
22 Nov 2004 02:28:31 PM |
|
|
The mountains will explode in a multitude
of volcanic eruptions, the ground will
shake, roll and crack open - the sky
will dump a deluge of rain - the wind
will blow in speeds neveer before
seen and the people of America will
run for the bunkers for the worldwide
PARTY AS THEY ROAM THE NET
shaking their arms and hands in wild
circular motions - squealing like pigs
being slopped.
And me -- I'm going to bake a Southern
Rebel ApplePecan pie and watch in the
following order from my TiVo; As the
World Turns, The Guiding Light, The
Young and the Restless, Search for
Tomorrow, The Race and Judging
Amy.
Tangents are infinite in all of nature in
all universes constantly and at random.
Oh Joy!
Tom
The Psychedelic Pope
Patron Saint of the Internet
http://www.apple2.org.za/gswv/me/
.
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
|
| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 07:23:24 AM |
|
|
dsteven@flashmail.com
wrote:
bollogs@hotmail.com (bollogs) wrote in message
news:<a666e2c5.0411200845.b028f4e@posting.google.com>...
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists -
So you must also believe it was wrong to fight the Communists in Korea
-- and for all these years the productive and enterprising South Korea
has been free of Communism, you would have preferred to see South
Koreans suffering under the abhorrent conditions North Korea has
provided for its people?
Yep, that is exactly what most left wing liberals would have preferred.
The only Military action these Liberals have ever supported was the action
against Serbia, and they only supported that because it was launched by their
god (Clinton) and it was launched against an historical ally of the USA.
Tony
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| User: "Marvin The Paranoid Android" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
20 Nov 2004 11:45:26 AM |
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bollogs wrote:
The former US defence secretary - the man responsible for the needless
killing of thousands of Vietnamese for no other reason than that they
were communists - Robert McNamara, in his memoirs entitled "In
Retrospect: The Tradegy and Lessons of Vietnam" said that there were
several major causes for America's disaster in Vietnam and he listed
them thus:
To quote his own words:
1. We misjudged then - as we have since - the geopolitical
intentions of our adversaries (North Vietnam and the Vietcong,
supported by China and the Soviet Union) and we exaggerated the
dangers to the United States of their actions.
2. We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of
our own experience. We totally misjudged the political forces
within the country.
3. We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate the
people to fight and die for their beliefs and values - and we
continue to do so today in many parts of the world.
4. Our misjudgements of friend and foe alike reflected our
profound ignorance of the history, culture and politics of the
people in the area...
5. We failed then - as we have since - to recognise the
limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces
and doctrine in confronting unconventional, highly motivated
peoples' movements. We failed as well to adapt our military
tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people
from a totally different culture.
6. We failed to retain popular support in part because we did not
explain fully what was happening and why we were doing what we
did.
7. We did not recognise that neither our people nor our leaders
are omniscient. Where our own security is not directly at stake,
our judgement of what is in another' people's or country's best
interest should be put to the test of open discussion in
international forums. We do not have the God-given right to
shape every nation in our own image or as we choose.
8. We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action -
other than in response to direct threats to our own security
should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational
forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the
international community.
9. We failed to recognise that in international affairs, as in
other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are
no immediate solutions. For one whose life has been dedicated to
the belief and practice of problem-solving, this is particularly
hard to admit.
10. Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organise
the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with
the extraordinarily complex range of political and military
issues....
Do any of these points ring a bell for anyone?
WH
Bush isn't a big reader.
Someone needs to make a movie of the book.
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
20 Nov 2004 06:07:41 PM |
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"Marvin The Paranoid Android" <marvin@heartofgold.com> wrote in message
news:2qLnd.56056$Ho4.1915488@news20.bellglobal.com...
bollogs wrote:
Do any of these points ring a bell for anyone?
WH
Bush isn't a big reader.
Someone needs to make a movie of the book.
Either that or someone needs to write a third grade reader. "My Pet
Imperialist" or something.
Sadly I think that "Viet Nam" or "Iraq" will happen again and again. It'll
be that way for as long as the drive for money, power, control dominates the
motives of the "powers that be". I'm harping again about the political and
social elite that run the show in this country.
There will always be an external threat until complete hegemony is achieved.
There won't ever really be complete freedom of the press. Complete freedom
for the acquiring and the distribution of the facts, the truth, has always
lagged well behind the spearpoint.
There will always be deception by those in power - lies and the blinding of
the general populace to the real motives behind the policies.
There will always be a strong, emotional, patriotic response within the
populace to a national challenge or threat be it real or manufactured.
There will always be a majority that will gladly acquiesce to injustice
overseas in order to protect domestic security and the continuation of our
comparatively luxurious lifestyle. Love thy neighbor as yourself won't be
put into effect beyond the point of even possible inconvenience. This is
why I find the compassion and even the rage of someone like Chris far more
compelling and far more "Christian" than what a "Christian" nation can seem
to muster.
I strongly feel that past will be prologue until something comes along that
shatters the status quo.
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
20 Nov 2004 10:26:07 PM |
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John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net>
wrote:
Someone needs to make a movie of >>the book.
Either that or someone needs to write a >third grade reader. "My Pet
Imperialist" or something.
3rd grade level you say? Then they'd have to write it at 2nd grade level for
John Kerry since his IQ has been proven by the Officers exam to be lower than
the President's.
Tony
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| User: " John F Lemke" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
21 Nov 2004 10:28:30 PM |
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"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041120232607.08318.00001100@mb-m04.aol.com...
John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net>
wrote:
Someone needs to make a movie of >>the book.
Either that or someone needs to write a >third grade reader. "My Pet
Imperialist" or something.
3rd grade level you say? Then they'd have to write it at 2nd grade level
for
John Kerry since his IQ has been proven by the Officers exam to be lower
than
the President's.
Tony
Must be a problem common to the inbred elite in America.
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| User: "Michael Johnathan McDonald" |
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| Title: Re: Will those ignorant yanks EVER learn? |
22 Nov 2004 06:40:39 PM |
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" John F Lemke" <jflemke@LocalLink.net> wrote in message news:<TdOdncxNfI6-9jzcRVn-sA@locallink.net>...
Must be a problem common to the inbred elite in America.
"inbred elite?"
***** ;) We are not talking about you and your family here ;)
Also, Didn't you notice that your own book you supplied for proof
calls you a liar -lol ;)
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