http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1099522210319
NEW YORK-Wind turbines have been hailed as an environmentally friendly way
to reduce the world's dependence on fossil fuels. But a wind farm with
hundreds or even thousands of large turbines removes an enormous amount of
energy from the air. So, is wind power really benign?
In one of the first studies to get at that question, scientists modelled the
impact of a hypothetical large-scale wind farm in the Great Plains. Their
conclusion, reported in The Journal Of Geophysical Research, is that
thousands of turbines concentrated in one area can affect local weather.
The impact, said the study's lead author, Somnath Baidya Roy, comes not so
much from the turbines' rotor blades slowing down the air but from
atmospheric mixing that occurs in the blades' wake. This creates warmer,
drier conditions at the surface.
"We found that it's the turbulence generated by the rotor that is crucial
when you talk about the impact on local meteorology," said Baidya Roy, who
did the research at Princeton but is now at Duke.
The simulated wind farm in the study consisted of 10,000 turbines, with
rotor blades 50 metres long, in a 96-by-96 kilometre grid in north-central
Oklahoma.
In the Great Plains, there is a nighttime stream of fast-moving air that
separates cool, moist air near the ground from drier, warmer air above. The
simulation found that the turbines catch this nocturnal jet, and the ensuing
turbulence causes vertical mixing.
The warming and drying that occur when the upper air mass reaches the
surface is a significant change, Baidya Roy said, and is similar to the
kinds of local atmospheric changes that occur with large-scale
deforestation.
"You might see some kind of convective clouds or scattered rainfall here and
there," Baidya Roy said.
Even though the study was only preliminary, he said, it pointed to the need
to improve rotor design to reduce turbulence. A wind farm of the size used
in the simulation is much larger than those that have been built so far, but
it is not out of line with what is being considered as more power from
renewable resources is sought.
"When you think of wind energy, people have a quaint idea of a lone windmill
by the river," he said. "We are quite a ways from that, actually."
.
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| User: "Charly the Bastard" |
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| Title: Re: Wind Farms May Alter the Weather |
09 Nov 2004 08:33:55 PM |
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Jane wrote:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1099522210319
NEW YORK-Wind turbines have been hailed as an environmentally friendly way
to reduce the world's dependence on fossil fuels. But a wind farm with
hundreds or even thousands of large turbines removes an enormous amount of
energy from the air. So, is wind power really benign?
In one of the first studies to get at that question, scientists modelled the
impact of a hypothetical large-scale wind farm in the Great Plains. Their
conclusion, reported in The Journal Of Geophysical Research, is that
thousands of turbines concentrated in one area can affect local weather.
The impact, said the study's lead author, Somnath Baidya Roy, comes not so
much from the turbines' rotor blades slowing down the air but from
atmospheric mixing that occurs in the blades' wake. This creates warmer,
drier conditions at the surface.
"We found that it's the turbulence generated by the rotor that is crucial
when you talk about the impact on local meteorology," said Baidya Roy, who
did the research at Princeton but is now at Duke.
The simulated wind farm in the study consisted of 10,000 turbines, with
rotor blades 50 metres long, in a 96-by-96 kilometre grid in north-central
Oklahoma.
In the Great Plains, there is a nighttime stream of fast-moving air that
separates cool, moist air near the ground from drier, warmer air above. The
simulation found that the turbines catch this nocturnal jet, and the ensuing
turbulence causes vertical mixing.
The warming and drying that occur when the upper air mass reaches the
surface is a significant change, Baidya Roy said, and is similar to the
kinds of local atmospheric changes that occur with large-scale
deforestation.
"You might see some kind of convective clouds or scattered rainfall here and
there," Baidya Roy said.
Even though the study was only preliminary, he said, it pointed to the need
to improve rotor design to reduce turbulence. A wind farm of the size used
in the simulation is much larger than those that have been built so far, but
it is not out of line with what is being considered as more power from
renewable resources is sought.
"When you think of wind energy, people have a quaint idea of a lone windmill
by the river," he said. "We are quite a ways from that, actually."
I think those scientists need to check their math. Low speed aerodynamics
doesn't back them up. And I think they need a more realistic size for the
hypothetical wind farm; 96 kliks square would cover more than four counties here
in Oklahoma, and I doubt that the local residents are going to want to vacate
for a wind farm. As for the turbulence, trees cause turbulence, so do buildings
and anything else that sticks up more than six inches. The only place laminar
flow holds absolutely true is on a billiard ball. It doesn't even hold up on an
aircraft wing, or a propeller or turbine blade, so why worry about a little
churning at the surface? "Free" electricity is much more desirable than the
continued pumping of millions of tons of CO2 from all those fossil fueled power
plants, I can live with a little turbulence. Around here, it would just be
another breezy day.
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| User: "Jean Guernon" |
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| Title: Re: Wind Farms May Alter the Weather |
09 Nov 2004 09:40:09 PM |
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They should do this study in the unused tundra of our Northern area.
Would at worst make the roughness of the winter a little milder, even if
I doubt there would be a noticeable difference. One thing is for sure,
it could be the solution to the energy crisis when you consider that a
small space like Pelchat will generate 1 GW.
(http://www.regie-energie.qc.ca/300/312/a-98-02.pdf)3.3.2.6 Impact sur
le réseau Puisqu’il est possible que les besoins et les conditions
économiques suscitent un développement accéléré et que les deuxième et
troisième phases puissent atteindre 100 MW à 150 MW installés par année,
la capacité totale d’un parc éolien en Gaspésie pourrait atteindre
éventuellement près de 900 MW et serait près de la demande de pointe
annuelle locale, soit environ 1 000 MW et risque souvent d’excéder la
demande de la région à d’autres moments.)
Remember that without any special request, already, across Canada, there
will be 10,000 MW installed by 2010 http://www.canwea.ca/en and that we
have the space and could build thousands of wind mills parks in the
tundra up north. The 10 gigawatt of production projected for the next
decade will produce the installed energy equivalent of 151,578,950 bbl a
day, and so, if we were to SERIOUSLY invest in that, make 1000 of these
(1GW) parks, and run cars on hydrogen, one could get 15 million oil
barrels equivalent, in electricity or hydrogen. I'm not sure but I think
Cap Chat is something like 20 Sq km. Canada is 3,851,787 sq mi
(9,976,128 sq km) wide. Of that, 2/rd are not used, and hardly occupied
if by nomad hunters. These are the best land for wind generation because
of the tundra that allows the wind to sweep all the time, the little
investment to things like clearing the land. And now that they made a
study for the American central states and it shows downsides, maybe they
will start considering what is most logical... ;-)
Of course, that Alberta wouldn't like to have the competition... But it
would be best for the world. BTW, how are the election going for you
there, as you wish?
J.
Jane a écrit:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1099522210319
NEW YORK-Wind turbines have been hailed as an environmentally friendly way
to reduce the world's dependence on fossil fuels. But a wind farm with
hundreds or even thousands of large turbines removes an enormous amount of
energy from the air. So, is wind power really benign?
In one of the first studies to get at that question, scientists modelled the
impact of a hypothetical large-scale wind farm in the Great Plains. Their
conclusion, reported in The Journal Of Geophysical Research, is that
thousands of turbines concentrated in one area can affect local weather.
The impact, said the study's lead author, Somnath Baidya Roy, comes not so
much from the turbines' rotor blades slowing down the air but from
atmospheric mixing that occurs in the blades' wake. This creates warmer,
drier conditions at the surface.
"We found that it's the turbulence generated by the rotor that is crucial
when you talk about the impact on local meteorology," said Baidya Roy, who
did the research at Princeton but is now at Duke.
The simulated wind farm in the study consisted of 10,000 turbines, with
rotor blades 50 metres long, in a 96-by-96 kilometre grid in north-central
Oklahoma.
In the Great Plains, there is a nighttime stream of fast-moving air that
separates cool, moist air near the ground from drier, warmer air above. The
simulation found that the turbines catch this nocturnal jet, and the ensuing
turbulence causes vertical mixing.
The warming and drying that occur when the upper air mass reaches the
surface is a significant change, Baidya Roy said, and is similar to the
kinds of local atmospheric changes that occur with large-scale
deforestation.
"You might see some kind of convective clouds or scattered rainfall here and
there," Baidya Roy said.
Even though the study was only preliminary, he said, it pointed to the need
to improve rotor design to reduce turbulence. A wind farm of the size used
in the simulation is much larger than those that have been built so far, but
it is not out of line with what is being considered as more power from
renewable resources is sought.
"When you think of wind energy, people have a quaint idea of a lone windmill
by the river," he said. "We are quite a ways from that, actually."
.
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| User: "Jane" |
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| Title: Re: Wind Farms May Alter the Weather |
10 Nov 2004 03:57:18 AM |
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"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:t4gkd.4190172$ic1.406462@news.easynews.com...
They should do this study in the unused tundra of our Northern area.
Would at worst make the roughness of the winter a little milder, even if
I doubt there would be a noticeable difference. One thing is for sure,
it could be the solution to the energy crisis when you consider that a
small space like Pelchat will generate 1 GW.
(http://www.regie-energie.qc.ca/300/312/a-98-02.pdf)3.3.2.6 Impact sur
le réseau Puisqu’il est possible que les besoins et les conditions
économiques suscitent un développement accéléré et que les deuxième et
troisième phases puissent atteindre 100 MW à 150 MW installés par année,
la capacité totale d’un parc éolien en Gaspésie pourrait atteindre
éventuellement près de 900 MW et serait près de la demande de pointe
annuelle locale, soit environ 1 000 MW et risque souvent d’excéder la
demande de la région à d’autres moments.)
Remember that without any special request, already, across Canada, there
will be 10,000 MW installed by 2010 http://www.canwea.ca/en and that we
have the space and could build thousands of wind mills parks in the
tundra up north. The 10 gigawatt of production projected for the next
decade will produce the installed energy equivalent of 151,578,950 bbl a
day, and so, if we were to SERIOUSLY invest in that, make 1000 of these
(1GW) parks, and run cars on hydrogen, one could get 15 million oil
barrels equivalent, in electricity or hydrogen. I'm not sure but I think
Cap Chat is something like 20 Sq km. Canada is 3,851,787 sq mi
(9,976,128 sq km) wide. Of that, 2/rd are not used, and hardly occupied
if by nomad hunters. These are the best land for wind generation because
of the tundra that allows the wind to sweep all the time, the little
investment to things like clearing the land. And now that they made a
study for the American central states and it shows downsides, maybe they
will start considering what is most logical... ;-)
Of course, that Alberta wouldn't like to have the competition... But it
would be best for the world. BTW, how are the election going for you
there, as you wish?
J.
I just put the article out there, as I thought it was
interesting...obviously, nothing is "proven".
(I don't live in Alberta, Jean, I live in Ontario. I really like Alberta,
so maybe that it is why it seemed I live there!)
Jane
Jane a écrit:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1099522210319
NEW YORK-Wind turbines have been hailed as an environmentally friendly
way
to reduce the world's dependence on fossil fuels. But a wind farm with
hundreds or even thousands of large turbines removes an enormous amount
of
energy from the air. So, is wind power really benign?
In one of the first studies to get at that question, scientists modelled
the
impact of a hypothetical large-scale wind farm in the Great Plains.
Their
conclusion, reported in The Journal Of Geophysical Research, is that
thousands of turbines concentrated in one area can affect local weather.
The impact, said the study's lead author, Somnath Baidya Roy, comes not
so
much from the turbines' rotor blades slowing down the air but from
atmospheric mixing that occurs in the blades' wake. This creates warmer,
drier conditions at the surface.
"We found that it's the turbulence generated by the rotor that is
crucial
when you talk about the impact on local meteorology," said Baidya Roy,
who
did the research at Princeton but is now at Duke.
The simulated wind farm in the study consisted of 10,000 turbines, with
rotor blades 50 metres long, in a 96-by-96 kilometre grid in
north-central
Oklahoma.
In the Great Plains, there is a nighttime stream of fast-moving air that
separates cool, moist air near the ground from drier, warmer air above.
The
simulation found that the turbines catch this nocturnal jet, and the
ensuing
turbulence causes vertical mixing.
The warming and drying that occur when the upper air mass reaches the
surface is a significant change, Baidya Roy said, and is similar to the
kinds of local atmospheric changes that occur with large-scale
deforestation.
"You might see some kind of convective clouds or scattered rainfall here
and
there," Baidya Roy said.
Even though the study was only preliminary, he said, it pointed to the
need
to improve rotor design to reduce turbulence. A wind farm of the size
used
in the simulation is much larger than those that have been built so far,
but
it is not out of line with what is being considered as more power from
renewable resources is sought.
"When you think of wind energy, people have a quaint idea of a lone
windmill
by the river," he said. "We are quite a ways from that, actually."
.
|
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| User: "Jean Guernon" |
|
| Title: Re: Wind Farms May Alter the Weather |
10 Nov 2004 02:53:27 PM |
|
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Jane a écrit:
"Jean Guernon" <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message
news:t4gkd.4190172$ic1.406462@news.easynews.com...
They should do this study in the unused tundra of our Northern area.
Would at worst make the roughness of the winter a little milder, even if
I doubt there would be a noticeable difference. One thing is for sure,
it could be the solution to the energy crisis when you consider that a
small space like Pelchat will generate 1 GW.
(http://www.regie-energie.qc.ca/300/312/a-98-02.pdf)3.3.2.6 Impact sur
le réseau Puisqu’il est possible que les besoins et les conditions
économiques suscitent un développement accéléré et que les deuxième et
troisième phases puissent atteindre 100 MW à 150 MW installés par année,
la capacité totale d’un parc éolien en Gaspésie pourrait atteindre
éventuellement près de 900 MW et serait près de la demande de pointe
annuelle locale, soit environ 1 000 MW et risque souvent d’excéder la
demande de la région à d’autres moments.)
Remember that without any special request, already, across Canada, there
will be 10,000 MW installed by 2010 http://www.canwea.ca/en and that we
have the space and could build thousands of wind mills parks in the
tundra up north. The 10 gigawatt of production projected for the next
decade will produce the installed energy equivalent of 151,578,950 bbl a
day, and so, if we were to SERIOUSLY invest in that, make 1000 of these
(1GW) parks, and run cars on hydrogen, one could get 15 million oil
barrels equivalent, in electricity or hydrogen. I'm not sure but I think
Cap Chat is something like 20 Sq km. Canada is 3,851,787 sq mi
(9,976,128 sq km) wide. Of that, 2/rd are not used, and hardly occupied
if by nomad hunters. These are the best land for wind generation because
of the tundra that allows the wind to sweep all the time, the little
investment to things like clearing the land. And now that they made a
study for the American central states and it shows downsides, maybe they
will start considering what is most logical... ;-)
Of course, that Alberta wouldn't like to have the competition... But it
would be best for the world. BTW, how are the election going for you
there, as you wish?
J.
I just put the article out there, as I thought it was
interesting...obviously, nothing is "proven".
(I don't live in Alberta, Jean, I live in Ontario. I really like Alberta,
so maybe that it is why it seemed I live there!)
Jane
OK.
J.
Jane a écrit:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1099522210319
NEW YORK-Wind turbines have been hailed as an environmentally friendly
way
to reduce the world's dependence on fossil fuels. But a wind farm with
hundreds or even thousands of large turbines removes an enormous amount
of
energy from the air. So, is wind power really benign?
In one of the first studies to get at that question, scientists modelled
the
impact of a hypothetical large-scale wind farm in the Great Plains.
Their
conclusion, reported in The Journal Of Geophysical Research, is that
thousands of turbines concentrated in one area can affect local weather.
The impact, said the study's lead author, Somnath Baidya Roy, comes not
so
much from the turbines' rotor blades slowing down the air but from
atmospheric mixing that occurs in the blades' wake. This creates warmer,
drier conditions at the surface.
"We found that it's the turbulence generated by the rotor that is
crucial
when you talk about the impact on local meteorology," said Baidya Roy,
who
did the research at Princeton but is now at Duke.
The simulated wind farm in the study consisted of 10,000 turbines, with
rotor blades 50 metres long, in a 96-by-96 kilometre grid in
north-central
Oklahoma.
In the Great Plains, there is a nighttime stream of fast-moving air that
separates cool, moist air near the ground from drier, warmer air above.
The
simulation found that the turbines catch this nocturnal jet, and the
ensuing
turbulence causes vertical mixing.
The warming and drying that occur when the upper air mass reaches the
surface is a significant change, Baidya Roy said, and is similar to the
kinds of local atmospheric changes that occur with large-scale
deforestation.
"You might see some kind of convective clouds or scattered rainfall here
and
there," Baidya Roy said.
Even though the study was only preliminary, he said, it pointed to the
need
to improve rotor design to reduce turbulence. A wind farm of the size
used
in the simulation is much larger than those that have been built so far,
but
it is not out of line with what is being considered as more power from
renewable resources is sought.
"When you think of wind energy, people have a quaint idea of a lone
windmill
by the river," he said. "We are quite a ways from that, actually."
.
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