| Topic: |
Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus |
| User: |
"sonya" |
| Date: |
08 Dec 2003 10:30:49 AM |
| Object: |
WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
A friend sent this link to me this morning....
I found it very interesting.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7730&cid=5&cname=Asia
WMD in Iraq: Still in hands of fedayeen
According to a line commander in the Iraq military, British
intelligence claims that weapons of mass destruction could be deployed
in 45 minutes was wrong. He says it would have taken his unit only 30
minutes to use them -- and that the fedayeen still have them.
The 45 minute claim, which British intelligence has long said was
based on information from a single source, is at the heart of the
credibility issues dogging the Blair administration over Iraq.
Now, a long-time spy for that intelligence apparatus, identified only
as Lieutenant Colonel al-Dabbagh, says he was the source for the
controversial claim.
As reported in the UK's Sunday Telegraph by author (Saddam: The Secret
Life) , published by Macmillan) Con Coughlin, the officer had spied on
the Saddam Hussein regime for both American and British intelligence
agencies for more than seven years.
In Bagdhad, where he now works as an advisor to Iraq's Governing
Council after having been pushed out of the army by American Defense
Secretary Rumsfeld's de-Ba'athification programme, the officer
outlined an almost byzantine plan to use the WMDs as weapons of last
resort.
He is reportedly nonplussed by having been pushed out of the military
in spite of his clandestine work on behalf of the Coalition and is
quoted as saying, "I don't know why they did this to me. My name was
passed to the US six months before the war as someone who was helping
them."
Coughlin says the officer was willing to speak candidly about the WMD
issue but on condition that his first name -- by which Arab men are
more commonly known than their patronyms -- and his photograph not be
published.
"I have to protect my family somehow," he told Coughlin, apparently
referring to his wife and several children.
The Lt-Colonel said Saddam had been convinced an attack by Coalition
forces was inevitable and had decided months before the event that 30
per cent of the military's weapons would be stored in secret caches
around the country to arm resistance fighters after the main war.
According to the Telegraph, those weapons included "guns,
rocket-propelled grenades, anti-tank weapons and Strella
surface-to-air missiles (such as the one fired at the DHL cargo plane
last month)."
But Saddam also went a step further and ordered a pre-invasion
deployment of WMDs to select front line positions.
When the WMDs were deployed, near the end of last year, the Lt-Colonel
says he was commanding one of four air-defence units based in the
western desert and his base was selected as a staging point.
The Telegraph story continues:
"They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something
you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade," Lt Col al-Dabbagh
explained.
"They were either chemical or biological weapons; I don't know which,
because only the Fedayeen and the Special Republican Guard were
allowed to use them. All I know is that we were told that when we used
these weapons we had to wear gas masks."
According to information he learnt subsequently from his military
colleagues, the weapons were made at factories at Habbaniyah,
al-Nahrawan, Nabbai and al-Latifia.
Saddam's officials also gave elaborate instructions on how to use the
weapons. Because of their limited range, those responsible for firing
them were to dress in civilian clothes and drive in civilian vehicles
with yellow number plates.
"Each military unit was given two four-wheel drive Isuzu cars," said
Lt Col al-Dabbagh. "We were not allowed to use them and they had to be
kept in good condition." If the war reached a critical stage and
Iraq's forces were in danger of being overrun, then designated
officers would be given the task of driving the vehicles towards
coalition positions and firing the weapons.
"We were instructed that when we got the order we must use these cars
and use the secret weapon. We were also told that if any of us
discussed this weapon with any of our colleagues we would be hanged
immediately."
He believes that the only reason these weapons were not used during
Operation Iraqi Freedom last spring is that the bulk of the Iraqi army
refused to fight for Saddam.
"The West should thank God that the Iraqi army decided not to fight,"
he said. "If the army had fought for Saddam, and used these weapons,
there would have been terrible consequences."
Lt Col al-Dabbagh has no idea what became of the weapons because
shortly before hostilities commenced he was recalled to Iraq's air
defence headquarters in Baghdad, although he believes that most of
them were taken away by Saddam's Fedayeen and hidden away.
He did, however, see a group of Fedayeen attempt to use one of the
warheads against an American position on the outskirts of Baghdad on
April 6. "They were going to use this weapon, but then they realised
that they would kill lots of Iraqis who did not have masks, so they
put them in their cars and drove off."
Convinced that the weapons are still hidden in Iraq, Lt Col al-Dabbagh
doesn't believe any of them will be found until Saddam is caught or
killed. "All the people who worked on these weapons have either
escaped or disappeared. Only when Saddam is captured will these people
talk openly about these weapons. Then they will reveal where they
are."
As news of the startling account came into the media mainstream,
several prominent Iraq officials suggested that there were problems
with the story.
According to another story from the Telegraph, a senior Iraqi general
in charge of Iraq's air defences during the war, who was part of a
committee that reported directly to Saddam on the supply and training
of air defence units, appeared to discount the claims of WMDs on the
battlefield, saying: "This lieutenant colonel wanted to scare the
Western world."
The general, who would not give his name, conceded that authority may
have been bypassed but said the frontline troops he visited were in a
shambolic state and were unlikely to have received any additional
weapons.
"We were very low on equipment," he said. "There certainly wasn't any
talk of chemical warheads."
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear testimony
from Lieutenant-Colonel al-Dabbagh.
8-Dec-2003
.
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
09 Dec 2003 03:23:22 AM |
|
|
"sonya" <tandym@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7bf6888e.0312080830.7332c5f9@posting.google.com...
A friend sent this link to me this morning....
I found it very interesting.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7730&cid=5&cname=Asia
More than intersting, it's HILARIOUS! WMD that can be fit in a grenade!
That's not *terribly* likely to be useful you know. WMD that was so widely
issued even *air defence* regiuments had them! (In case some planes needded
poisoning?) and yet none of these grenade-sized anti-aircraft WMD can be
found!
The 45 minute claim, which British intelligence has long said was
based on information from a single source, is at the heart of the
credibility issues dogging the Blair administration over Iraq.
Yes, and it would appear that single source is a raving fucking lunatic.
Now, a long-time spy for that intelligence apparatus, identified only
as Lieutenant Colonel al-Dabbagh, says he was the source for the
controversial claim.
That's the feller.
"They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something
you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade," Lt Col al-Dabbagh
explained.
BWAHAHAHA!
"They were either chemical or biological weapons; I don't know which,
because only the Fedayeen and the Special Republican Guard were
allowed to use them. All I know is that we were told that when we used
these weapons we had to wear gas masks."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
According to another story from the Telegraph, a senior Iraqi general
in charge of Iraq's air defences during the war, who was part of a
committee that reported directly to Saddam on the supply and training
of air defence units, appeared to discount the claims of WMDs on the
battlefield, saying: "This lieutenant colonel wanted to scare the
Western world."
Now that sounds more likely..
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear testimony
from Lieutenant-Colonel al-Dabbagh.
The Bush admin are making themselves look stupider and stupider over this
WMD lie..
.
|
|
|
| User: "Guelfo" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi LineCommander |
09 Dec 2003 03:41:00 AM |
|
|
tw wrote:
"sonya" <tandym@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7bf6888e.0312080830.7332c5f9@posting.google.com...
A friend sent this link to me this morning....
I found it very interesting.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7730&cid=5&cname=Asia
More than intersting, it's HILARIOUS! WMD that can be fit in a grenade!
That's not *terribly* likely to be useful you know. WMD that was so widely
issued even *air defence* regiuments had them! (In case some planes needded
poisoning?) and yet none of these grenade-sized anti-aircraft WMD can be
found!
My God!! Are you unable to read?
The colonel said the fedayeens have them that's why they can't be found.
The 45 minute claim, which British intelligence has long said was
based on information from a single source, is at the heart of the
credibility issues dogging the Blair administration over Iraq.
Yes, and it would appear that single source is a raving fucking lunatic.
No. He is a reliable source.
Now, a long-time spy for that intelligence apparatus, identified only
as Lieutenant Colonel al-Dabbagh, says he was the source for the
controversial claim.
That's the feller.
yop
"They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something
you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade," Lt Col al-Dabbagh
explained.
BWAHAHAHA!
What's so funny?
"They were either chemical or biological weapons; I don't know which,
because only the Fedayeen and the Special Republican Guard were
allowed to use them. All I know is that we were told that when we used
these weapons we had to wear gas masks."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Again?
According to another story from the Telegraph, a senior Iraqi general
in charge of Iraq's air defences during the war, who was part of a
committee that reported directly to Saddam on the supply and training
of air defence units, appeared to discount the claims of WMDs on the
battlefield, saying: "This lieutenant colonel wanted to scare the
Western world."
Now that sounds more likely..
Just because you don't want the colonel to be right.
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear testimony
from Lieutenant-Colonel al-Dabbagh.
The Bush admin are making themselves look stupider and stupider over this
WMD lie..
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
09 Dec 2003 05:18:15 AM |
|
|
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD598A2.4010605@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
"sonya" <tandym@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7bf6888e.0312080830.7332c5f9@posting.google.com...
A friend sent this link to me this morning....
I found it very interesting.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7730&cid=5&cname=Asia
More than intersting, it's HILARIOUS! WMD that can be fit in a grenade!
That's not *terribly* likely to be useful you know. WMD that was so
widely
issued even *air defence* regiuments had them! (In case some planes
needded
poisoning?) and yet none of these grenade-sized anti-aircraft WMD can be
found!
My God!! Are you unable to read?
The colonel said the fedayeens have them that's why they can't be found.
What, so the Fedayeen carry them around personally? Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have. IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even air-defence units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable to read?
The 45 minute claim, which British intelligence has long said was
based on information from a single source, is at the heart of the
credibility issues dogging the Blair administration over Iraq.
Yes, and it would appear that single source is a raving fucking lunatic.
No. He is a reliable source.
No, he is a defector who is telling his captors what they want to hear in
order to get better treatment and make himself sound important. What makes
him a reliable source? His own peers think he's just trying to impress the
Americans and defence experts think his testimony is "very strange". YOU
have a funny idea about what constitutes a reliable source... do you think
grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
"They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something
you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade," Lt Col al-Dabbagh
explained.
BWAHAHAHA!
What's so funny?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
"They were either chemical or biological weapons; I don't know which,
because only the Fedayeen and the Special Republican Guard were
allowed to use them. All I know is that we were told that when we used
these weapons we had to wear gas masks."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Again?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
How much use do you think a gas mask is against a chemical or biological
agent?
According to another story from the Telegraph, a senior Iraqi general
in charge of Iraq's air defences during the war, who was part of a
committee that reported directly to Saddam on the supply and training
of air defence units, appeared to discount the claims of WMDs on the
battlefield, saying: "This lieutenant colonel wanted to scare the
Western world."
Now that sounds more likely..
Just because you don't want the colonel to be right.
No, just because what the colonel said sounded extremely unlikely. Are you
unable to read?
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
Janes are THE premier source of military reference books. They know their
stuff, obviously you don't.
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear testimony
from Lieutenant-Colonel al-Dabbagh.
The Bush admin are making themselves look stupider and stupider over
this
WMD lie..
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
Well, in order to prove it I'd have to prove there are no WMD, and even the
most liberal, kiddiest person you probably know you can't prove a negative.
A better intellectual exercise would be for YOU to prove to me how a grenade
full of nuclear or biological agent is going to be a worthwhile weapon, and
then for you to prove that such weapons were actually issued by pointing to
reports of them being found. Off you go sonny.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Guelfo" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi LineCommander |
09 Dec 2003 10:44:49 AM |
|
|
tw wrote:
A friend sent this link to me this morning....
I found it very interesting.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7730&cid=5&cname=Asia
More than intersting, it's HILARIOUS! WMD that can be fit in a grenade!
That's not *terribly* likely to be useful you know. WMD that was so
widely
issued even *air defence* regiuments had them! (In case some planes
needded
poisoning?) and yet none of these grenade-sized anti-aircraft WMD can be
found!
My God!! Are you unable to read?
The colonel said the fedayeens have them that's why they can't be found.
What, so the Fedayeen carry them around personally?
They know where they are.
Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have.
The ones that where captured didn't have them obviously.
IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even air-defence units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable to read?
I didn't read that part.
The 45 minute claim, which British intelligence has long said was
based on information from a single source, is at the heart of the
credibility issues dogging the Blair administration over Iraq.
Yes, and it would appear that single source is a raving fucking lunatic.
No. He is a reliable source.
No, he is a defector who is telling his captors what they want to hear in
order to get better treatment and make himself sound important.
You have to prove that.
What makes
him a reliable source?
He was a colonel in the Iraqi army.
His own peers think he's just trying to impress the
Americans and defence experts think his testimony is "very strange".
That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
YOU
have a funny idea about what constitutes a reliable source... do you think
grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
To me it makes perfect sense. Especially used by the Fedayeen. Their the
ones who use "kamikaze" tactics like the palestinians.
"They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something
you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade," Lt Col al-Dabbagh
explained.
BWAHAHAHA!
What's so funny?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
Not sensible no. But the enemy isn't reasonable, he has no common sense.
His motives are fanatical. He thinks this is a holy war against evil.
Evil for him being the US. He is happy to die for his cause.
"They were either chemical or biological weapons; I don't know which,
because only the Fedayeen and the Special Republican Guard were
allowed to use them. All I know is that we were told that when we used
these weapons we had to wear gas masks."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Again?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
How much use do you think a gas mask is against a chemical or biological
agent?
We don't know that. It depends on the type of agent used.
According to another story from the Telegraph, a senior Iraqi general
in charge of Iraq's air defences during the war, who was part of a
committee that reported directly to Saddam on the supply and training
of air defence units, appeared to discount the claims of WMDs on the
battlefield, saying: "This lieutenant colonel wanted to scare the
Western world."
Now that sounds more likely..
Just because you don't want the colonel to be right.
No, just because what the colonel said sounded extremely unlikely. Are you
unable to read?
I made a statement on the basis of what I believe you think about the
war. That's why I said what I said.
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
Janes are THE premier source of military reference books. They know their
stuff, obviously you don't.
I have never heard about them. Are you pulling my leg?
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear testimony
from Lieutenant-Colonel al-Dabbagh.
The Bush admin are making themselves look stupider and stupider over
this
WMD lie..
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
Well, in order to prove it I'd have to prove there are no WMD, and even the
most liberal, kiddiest person you probably know you can't prove a negative.
A better intellectual exercise would be for YOU to prove to me how a grenade
full of nuclear or biological agent is going to be a worthwhile weapon, and
then for you to prove that such weapons were actually issued by pointing to
reports of them being found. Off you go sonny.
Because these guys are crazy!! We don't know how their mind works!!
Maybe they have developed a system that allows them to detonate these
weapons individually.
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
10 Dec 2003 02:46:26 AM |
|
|
"Guelfo" <pippopoppo1@libero.it> wrote in message
news:3FD5FBF7.4050403@libero.it...
tw wrote:
A friend sent this link to me this morning....
I found it very interesting.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7730&cid=5&cname=Asia
More than intersting, it's HILARIOUS! WMD that can be fit in a grenade!
That's not *terribly* likely to be useful you know. WMD that was so
widely
issued even *air defence* regiuments had them! (In case some planes
needded
poisoning?) and yet none of these grenade-sized anti-aircraft WMD can
be
found!
My God!! Are you unable to read?
The colonel said the fedayeens have them that's why they can't be found.
What, so the Fedayeen carry them around personally?
They know where they are.
Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have.
The ones that where captured didn't have them obviously.
Obviously! LOL
IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even air-defence
units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable to
read?
I didn't read that part.
Ah...
The 45 minute claim, which British intelligence has long said was
based on information from a single source, is at the heart of the
credibility issues dogging the Blair administration over Iraq.
Yes, and it would appear that single source is a raving fucking
lunatic.
No. He is a reliable source.
No, he is a defector who is telling his captors what they want to hear
in
order to get better treatment and make himself sound important.
You have to prove that.
OK, my evidence is that most defectors/deserters/stoolpigeons tell their
captors what they want to hear. My proof that he is talking ***** is that a)
Grenade sized WMD is a joke and b) None have been found anyway.
What makes
him a reliable source?
He was a colonel in the Iraqi army.
THAT makes him a reliable source? LOL
His own peers think he's just trying to impress the
Americans and defence experts think his testimony is "very strange".
That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
A defence experts opinion sort of trumps that of a deserting colonel...
YOU
have a funny idea about what constitutes a reliable source... do you
think
grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
To me it makes perfect sense. Especially used by the Fedayeen. Their the
ones who use "kamikaze" tactics like the palestinians.
So why were they told to wear gas masks if it's a kamikaze attack? Do you
have ANY IDEA of how much chemical agent you need to produce the neccesary
concentration to kill people? Obviously not...
"They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something
you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade," Lt Col al-Dabbagh
explained.
BWAHAHAHA!
What's so funny?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
Not sensible no. But the enemy isn't reasonable, he has no common sense.
His motives are fanatical. He thinks this is a holy war against evil.
Evil for him being the US. He is happy to die for his cause.
You have misunderstood the question. See above
"They were either chemical or biological weapons; I don't know which,
because only the Fedayeen and the Special Republican Guard were
allowed to use them. All I know is that we were told that when we used
these weapons we had to wear gas masks."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Again?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
How much use do you think a gas mask is against a chemical or biological
agent?
We don't know that. It depends on the type of agent used.
YOu don't know much about NBC warfare do you?
Now that sounds more likely..
Just because you don't want the colonel to be right.
No, just because what the colonel said sounded extremely unlikely. Are
you
unable to read?
I made a statement on the basis of what I believe you think about the
war. That's why I said what I said.
SO you made an assumption from ignorance in other words? OK....
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
Janes are THE premier source of military reference books. They know
their
stuff, obviously you don't.
I have never heard about them. Are you pulling my leg?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Google away. my ignorant little friend...
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear testimony
from Lieutenant-Colonel al-Dabbagh.
The Bush admin are making themselves look stupider and stupider over
this
WMD lie..
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
Well, in order to prove it I'd have to prove there are no WMD, and even
the
most liberal, kiddiest person you probably know you can't prove a
negative.
A better intellectual exercise would be for YOU to prove to me how a
grenade
full of nuclear or biological agent is going to be a worthwhile weapon,
and
then for you to prove that such weapons were actually issued by pointing
to
reports of them being found. Off you go sonny.
Because these guys are crazy!! We don't know how their mind works!!
What?
Maybe they have developed a system that allows them to detonate these
weapons individually.
What?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Guelfo" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi LineCommander |
10 Dec 2003 07:22:35 AM |
|
|
tw wrote:
A friend sent this link to me this morning....
I found it very interesting.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=7730&cid=5&cname=Asia
More than intersting, it's HILARIOUS! WMD that can be fit in a grenade!
That's not *terribly* likely to be useful you know. WMD that was so
widely
issued even *air defence* regiuments had them! (In case some planes
needded
poisoning?) and yet none of these grenade-sized anti-aircraft WMD can
be
found!
My God!! Are you unable to read?
The colonel said the fedayeens have them that's why they can't be found.
What, so the Fedayeen carry them around personally?
They know where they are.
Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have.
The ones that where captured didn't have them obviously.
Obviously! LOL
So you agree with me on that one. Glad to hear that.
IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even air-defence
units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable to
read?
I didn't read that part.
Ah...
Perhaps the Telegraph reporter misunderstood the colonel on that bit.
The 45 minute claim, which British intelligence has long said was
based on information from a single source, is at the heart of the
credibility issues dogging the Blair administration over Iraq.
Yes, and it would appear that single source is a raving fucking
lunatic.
No. He is a reliable source.
No, he is a defector who is telling his captors what they want to hear
in
order to get better treatment and make himself sound important.
You have to prove that.
OK, my evidence is that most defectors/deserters/stoolpigeons tell their
captors what they want to hear. My proof that he is talking ***** is that a)
Grenade sized WMD is a joke
These are NEW weapons. And just because you think its a joke doesn't
make them into one.
and b) None have been found anyway.
So what. He didn't say he knew where they were. He said he saw them.
What makes
him a reliable source?
He was a colonel in the Iraqi army.
THAT makes him a reliable source? LOL
Exactly. What part of being an iraqi officer makes him unreliable?
Are you racist by chance?
His own peers think he's just trying to impress the
Americans and defence experts think his testimony is "very strange".
That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
A defence experts opinion sort of trumps that of a deserting colonel...
This one is your opinion.
YOU
have a funny idea about what constitutes a reliable source... do you
think
grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
To me it makes perfect sense. Especially used by the Fedayeen. Their the
ones who use "kamikaze" tactics like the palestinians.
So why were they told to wear gas masks if it's a kamikaze attack?
Maybe because only one of them has to make the suicide attack the rest
help in the plan.
Do you
have ANY IDEA of how much chemical agent you need to produce the neccesary
concentration to kill people? Obviously not...
Plenty I believe.
"They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something
you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade," Lt Col al-Dabbagh
explained.
BWAHAHAHA!
What's so funny?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
Not sensible no. But the enemy isn't reasonable, he has no common sense.
His motives are fanatical. He thinks this is a holy war against evil.
Evil for him being the US. He is happy to die for his cause.
You have misunderstood the question. See above
You have misunderstood the answer. Read it.
"They were either chemical or biological weapons; I don't know which,
because only the Fedayeen and the Special Republican Guard were
allowed to use them. All I know is that we were told that when we used
these weapons we had to wear gas masks."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Again?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
How much use do you think a gas mask is against a chemical or biological
agent?
We don't know that. It depends on the type of agent used.
YOu don't know much about NBC warfare do you?
Not as an expert no.
Now that sounds more likely..
Just because you don't want the colonel to be right.
No, just because what the colonel said sounded extremely unlikely. Are
you
unable to read?
I made a statement on the basis of what I believe you think about the
war. That's why I said what I said.
SO you made an assumption from ignorance in other words? OK....
Was my assumption you being against this war incorrect?
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
Janes are THE premier source of military reference books. They know
their
stuff, obviously you don't.
I have never heard about them. Are you pulling my leg?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Google away. my ignorant little friend...
It's up to you to supply the information YOU talk about. Not me.
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear testimony
from Lieutenant-Colonel al-Dabbagh.
The Bush admin are making themselves look stupider and stupider over
this
WMD lie..
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
Well, in order to prove it I'd have to prove there are no WMD, and even
the
most liberal, kiddiest person you probably know you can't prove a
negative.
A better intellectual exercise would be for YOU to prove to me how a
grenade
full of nuclear or biological agent is going to be a worthwhile weapon,
and
then for you to prove that such weapons were actually issued by pointing
to
reports of them being found. Off you go sonny.
Because these guys are crazy!! We don't know how their mind works!!
What?
You read what I said.
Maybe they have developed a system that allows them to detonate these
weapons individually.
What?
It would make perfect sense with the "kamikaze" strategy.
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
10 Dec 2003 08:10:02 AM |
|
|
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD71E11.1090108@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have.
The ones that where captured didn't have them obviously.
Obviously! LOL
So you agree with me on that one.
Up to a point. They obviously can't have what doesn't exist can they?
Glad to hear that.
Glad to hear you're glad.
IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even air-defence
units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable to
read?
I didn't read that part.
Ah...
Perhaps the Telegraph reporter misunderstood the colonel on that bit.
Why would he have misunderstood that bit and not misunderstood the rest? I
think you're clutching at straws there, old boy.
OK, my evidence is that most defectors/deserters/stoolpigeons tell their
captors what they want to hear. My proof that he is talking ***** is that
a)
Grenade sized WMD is a joke
These are NEW weapons.
Ah, so you think Iraq is the cutting edge of weapons development?
And just because you think its a joke
Not just me, my old cocker, but expert mitary analysts and anyone who's ever
had anything to do with NBC delivery systems..
doesn't make them into one.
Perhaps not - the basic laws of physics and biochemistry make it a joke
though.
and b) None have been found anyway.
So what. He didn't say he knew where they were. He said he saw them.
So it is anecdotal evidence of an EXTREMELY unlikely weapons system. Good
luck with your life if you believe stuff like that.
What makes
him a reliable source?
He was a colonel in the Iraqi army.
THAT makes him a reliable source? LOL
Exactly. What part of being an iraqi officer makes him unreliable?
What part of being a colonel in the iraqi army makes him reliable`?
Are you racist by chance?
I certainly didn't indicate whether it was the colonel part, the Iraqi part
or the armed forces part which made him unreliable. Perhaps you
subconsciously assumed I think like you?
That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
A defence experts opinion sort of trumps that of a deserting colonel...
This one is your opinion.
Nope, defence experts tend to know a lot more about weapons systems than
colonels do. Soent much time around the military in your life?
To me it makes perfect sense. Especially used by the Fedayeen. Their the
ones who use "kamikaze" tactics like the palestinians.
So why were they told to wear gas masks if it's a kamikaze attack?
Maybe because only one of them has to make the suicide attack the rest
help in the plan.
What the hell are you on about? And why haven't we seen any suicide attacks
with these weapons? We've seen several with conventional explosives
Do you
have ANY IDEA of how much chemical agent you need to produce the
neccesary
concentration to kill people? Obviously not...
Plenty I believe.
Yes. Now then, how much can you fit in a grenade? Especially assuming you
need a bursting charge to propogate the stuff? "Plenty"?
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
Not sensible no. But the enemy isn't reasonable, he has no common sense.
His motives are fanatical. He thinks this is a holy war against evil.
Evil for him being the US. He is happy to die for his cause.
You have misunderstood the question. See above
You have misunderstood the answer. Read it.
I have, you have clearly misunderstood the question. Why do you say "the
enemy isn't reasonable" and "has no common sense"? Your racism is showing
again.
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
How much use do you think a gas mask is against a chemical or
biological
agent?
We don't know that. It depends on the type of agent used.
YOu don't know much about NBC warfare do you?
Not as an expert no.
So you speak from ignorance again. A gas mask would be pretty much useless.
I made a statement on the basis of what I believe you think about the
war. That's why I said what I said.
SO you made an assumption from ignorance in other words? OK....
Was my assumption you being against this war incorrect?
When you make assumptions you make an ***** of you and sumption.
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's
World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
Janes are THE premier source of military reference books. They know
their
stuff, obviously you don't.
I have never heard about them. Are you pulling my leg?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Google away. my ignorant little friend...
It's up to you to supply the information YOU talk about. Not me.
I did, advised you to do a google search. So you are incapable of using
google? Can't say I'm surprised. Suffice to say, if you haven't heard of
Jane's, you have no business commenting about matters pertaining to weapons
systems.
http://www.google.se/search?q=Jane%27s+reference+books&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=
sv&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning&meta=
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent
suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear
testimony
I notice you ignore this bit . the testimony of an expert in the field..
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
Well, in order to prove it I'd have to prove there are no WMD, and even
the
most liberal, kiddiest person you probably know you can't prove a
negative.
A better intellectual exercise would be for YOU to prove to me how a
grenade
full of nuclear or biological agent is going to be a worthwhile weapon,
and
then for you to prove that such weapons were actually issued by
pointing
to
reports of them being found. Off you go sonny.
Because these guys are crazy!! We don't know how their mind works!!
What?
You read what I said.
I did, it made no sense. You made no attempt to answer my points.
1) Prove to me how a grenade full of "WMD" can be a viable weapon
2) Prove that such weapons were manufactured
3) Prove that such weapons were issued.
Off you go, sonny...
Maybe they have developed a system that allows them to detonate these
weapons individually.
What?
It would make perfect sense with the "kamikaze" strategy.
I still don't see what your babbling about, how would a useless weapon make
any sense, kamikaze strategy or not?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Guelfo" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi LineCommander |
10 Dec 2003 09:44:07 AM |
|
|
tw wrote:
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD71E11.1090108@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have.
The ones that where captured didn't have them obviously.
Obviously! LOL
So you agree with me on that one.
Up to a point. They obviously can't have what doesn't exist can they?
The weapons exist they just didn't have them.
Glad to hear that.
Glad to hear you're glad.
IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even air-defence
units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable to
read?
I didn't read that part.
Ah...
Perhaps the Telegraph reporter misunderstood the colonel on that bit.
Why would he have misunderstood that bit and not misunderstood the rest? I
think you're clutching at straws there, old boy.
Actually from what I understand "Strella surface-to-air missiles" can
also be used against helicopters so that would make them into formidable
weapons.
OK, my evidence is that most defectors/deserters/stoolpigeons tell their
captors what they want to hear. My proof that he is talking ***** is that
a)
Grenade sized WMD is a joke
These are NEW weapons.
Ah, so you think Iraq is the cutting edge of weapons development?
Yes.
And just because you think its a joke
Not just me, my old cocker, but expert mitary analysts and anyone who's ever
had anything to do with NBC delivery systems..
Expert military analysts are in their warn rooms in their cosy houses
watching TV. They should let the boys get on with the war without
interfering with their totally unwarranted conclusions.
doesn't make them into one.
Perhaps not - the basic laws of physics and biochemistry make it a joke
though.
Have you seen these weapons? I don't think so. So what makes you think
that these weapons go against the basic laws of physics and biochemistry?
and b) None have been found anyway.
So what. He didn't say he knew where they were. He said he saw them.
So it is anecdotal evidence of an EXTREMELY unlikely weapons system. Good
luck with your life if you believe stuff like that.
He is a valuable witness.
Thank you for asking.
What makes
him a reliable source?
He was a colonel in the Iraqi army.
THAT makes him a reliable source? LOL
Exactly. What part of being an iraqi officer makes him unreliable?
What part of being a colonel in the iraqi army makes him reliable`?
He is a defector. And has been used by both the British and US secret
service in the passed.
Are you racist by chance?
I certainly didn't indicate whether it was the colonel part, the Iraqi part
or the armed forces part which made him unreliable. Perhaps you
subconsciously assumed I think like you?
I am certainly not a racist!
How dare you assume a thing like that?
That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
A defence experts opinion sort of trumps that of a deserting colonel...
This one is your opinion.
Nope, defence experts tend to know a lot more about weapons systems than
colonels do. Soent much time around the military in your life?
I have spent enough thank you. As to your opinion that defence experts
know a lot more than colonels, what makes you assume that the colonel
wasn't a defence expert?
To me it makes perfect sense. Especially used by the Fedayeen. Their the
ones who use "kamikaze" tactics like the palestinians.
So why were they told to wear gas masks if it's a kamikaze attack?
Maybe because only one of them has to make the suicide attack the rest
help in the plan.
What the hell are you on about? And why haven't we seen any suicide attacks
with these weapons? We've seen several with conventional explosives
Perhaps the orders are that Saddam himself must give the order to use
them. Or maybe as the article says, a group of Fedayeen was going to use
one of the warheads then changed their mind on the basis that:
"They were going to use this weapon, but then they realised that they
would kill lots of Iraqis who did not have masks, they put them in their
cars and drove off."
Do you
have ANY IDEA of how much chemical agent you need to produce the
neccesary
concentration to kill people? Obviously not...
Plenty I believe.
Yes. Now then, how much can you fit in a grenade? Especially assuming you
need a bursting charge to propogate the stuff? "Plenty"?
Perhaps these aren't bio-chemical agents just brands of Mustard gas as
used in World War I. This would still constitute a criminal violation of
Geneva Conventions.
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
Not sensible no. But the enemy isn't reasonable, he has no common sense.
His motives are fanatical. He thinks this is a holy war against evil.
Evil for him being the US. He is happy to die for his cause.
You have misunderstood the question. See above
You have misunderstood the answer. Read it.
I have, you have clearly misunderstood the question. Why do you say "the
enemy isn't reasonable" and "has no common sense"? Your racism is showing
again.
I am certainty not racist. I have just bluntly put things as they are.
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
How much use do you think a gas mask is against a chemical or
biological
agent?
We don't know that. It depends on the type of agent used.
YOu don't know much about NBC warfare do you?
Not as an expert no.
So you speak from ignorance again. A gas mask would be pretty much useless.
Not against Mustard Gas.
I made a statement on the basis of what I believe you think about the
war. That's why I said what I said.
SO you made an assumption from ignorance in other words? OK....
Was my assumption you being against this war incorrect?
When you make assumptions you make an ***** of you and sumption.
You didn't answer my question I see. Which is an answer in itself.
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's
World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
Janes are THE premier source of military reference books. They know
their
stuff, obviously you don't.
I have never heard about them. Are you pulling my leg?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Google away. my ignorant little friend...
It's up to you to supply the information YOU talk about. Not me.
I did, advised you to do a google search. So you are incapable of using
google? Can't say I'm surprised. Suffice to say, if you haven't heard of
Jane's, you have no business commenting about matters pertaining to weapons
systems.
http://www.google.se/search?q=Jane%27s+reference+books&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=
sv&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning&meta=
Interesting.
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent
suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear
testimony
I notice you ignore this bit . the testimony of an expert in the field..
Because perhaps they weren't biological just chemical.
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
Well, in order to prove it I'd have to prove there are no WMD, and even
the
most liberal, kiddiest person you probably know you can't prove a
negative.
A better intellectual exercise would be for YOU to prove to me how a
grenade
full of nuclear or biological agent is going to be a worthwhile weapon,
and
then for you to prove that such weapons were actually issued by
pointing
to
reports of them being found. Off you go sonny.
Because these guys are crazy!! We don't know how their mind works!!
What?
You read what I said.
I did, it made no sense. You made no attempt to answer my points.
1) Prove to me how a grenade full of "WMD" can be a viable weapon
If it has mustard gas or similar it is.
2) Prove that such weapons were manufactured
They obviously have been if the colonel's comments are true.
3) Prove that such weapons were issued.
What's that got to do with it? As long as the weapons have been
manufactured its irrelevant if they have been issued or not.
It still constitutes a violation.
Off you go, sonny...
Maybe they have developed a system that allows them to detonate these
weapons individually.
What?
It would make perfect sense with the "kamikaze" strategy.
I still don't see what your babbling about, how would a useless weapon make
any sense, kamikaze strategy or not?
It certainly isn't useless.
.
|
|
|
| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
11 Dec 2003 03:03:39 AM |
|
|
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD73F3D.70707@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD71E11.1090108@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have.
The ones that where captured didn't have them obviously.
Obviously! LOL
So you agree with me on that one.
Up to a point. They obviously can't have what doesn't exist can they?
The weapons exist they just didn't have them.
Where's your proof?
Glad to hear that.
Glad to hear you're glad.
IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even air-defence
units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable to
read?
I didn't read that part.
Ah...
Perhaps the Telegraph reporter misunderstood the colonel on that bit.
Why would he have misunderstood that bit and not misunderstood the rest?
I
think you're clutching at straws there, old boy.
Actually from what I understand "Strella surface-to-air missiles" can
also be used against helicopters so that would make them into formidable
weapons.
What has that got to do with anything?
OK, my evidence is that most defectors/deserters/stoolpigeons tell
their
captors what they want to hear. My proof that he is talking ***** is
that
a)
Grenade sized WMD is a joke
These are NEW weapons.
Ah, so you think Iraq is the cutting edge of weapons development?
Yes.
THen you are an even bigger idiot than you first appeared to be.
And just because you think its a joke
Not just me, my old cocker, but expert mitary analysts and anyone who's
ever
had anything to do with NBC delivery systems..
Expert military analysts are in their warn rooms in their cosy houses
watching TV. They should let the boys get on with the war without
interfering with their totally unwarranted conclusions.
Non sequitor
doesn't make them into one.
Perhaps not - the basic laws of physics and biochemistry make it a joke
though.
Have you seen these weapons?
Of course not, and I don't think anyone else has eother...
I don't think so. So what makes you think
that these weapons go against the basic laws of physics and biochemistry?
How many more times, guido? a grenade full of bio/chem agent isn't a
particularly useful weapon
and b) None have been found anyway.
So what. He didn't say he knew where they were. He said he saw them.
So it is anecdotal evidence of an EXTREMELY unlikely weapons system.
Good
luck with your life if you believe stuff like that.
He is a valuable witness.
How?
What makes
him a reliable source?
He was a colonel in the Iraqi army.
THAT makes him a reliable source? LOL
Exactly. What part of being an iraqi officer makes him unreliable?
What part of being a colonel in the iraqi army makes him reliable`?
He is a defector.
*bzzt* wrong. By thir very nature defectors are unreliable sources of
information.
And has been used by both the British and US secret
service in the passed.
Are you racist by chance?
I certainly didn't indicate whether it was the colonel part, the Iraqi
part
or the armed forces part which made him unreliable. Perhaps you
subconsciously assumed I think like you?
I am certainly not a racist!
How dare you assume a thing like that?
It was the subtext in your reasoning. YOu assumed I thought he was
unreliable because he was Iraqi when I wrote no such thing.
That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
A defence experts opinion sort of trumps that of a deserting colonel...
This one is your opinion.
Nope, defence experts tend to know a lot more about weapons systems than
colonels do. Soent much time around the military in your life?
I have spent enough thank you As to your opinion that defence experts
know a lot more than colonels, what makes you assume that the colonel
wasn't a defence expert?
His story. It's ridiculous.
To me it makes perfect sense. Especially used by the Fedayeen. Their
the
ones who use "kamikaze" tactics like the palestinians.
So why were they told to wear gas masks if it's a kamikaze attack?
Maybe because only one of them has to make the suicide attack the rest
help in the plan.
What the hell are you on about? And why haven't we seen any suicide
attacks
with these weapons? We've seen several with conventional explosives
Perhaps the orders are that Saddam himself must give the order to use
them.
Brilliant! You really are a clown.
Or maybe as the article says, a group of Fedayeen was going to use
one of the warheads then changed their mind on the basis that:
"They were going to use this weapon, but then they realised that they
would kill lots of Iraqis who did not have masks, they put them in their
cars and drove off."
Guido, as I have already explained, mask aren't much help against bio/chem
agents. Plus, I really don't think the guerillas in Iraq are too worried
about civilian casualties, they haven't tried very hard to limit them so far
have they?
Do you
have ANY IDEA of how much chemical agent you need to produce the
neccesary
concentration to kill people? Obviously not...
Plenty I believe.
Yes. Now then, how much can you fit in a grenade? Especially assuming
you
need a bursting charge to propogate the stuff? "Plenty"?
Perhaps these aren't bio-chemical agents just brands of Mustard gas as
used in World War I.
Evasion noted...in any case a grenade full would be pretty much harmless.
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
Not sensible no. But the enemy isn't reasonable, he has no common
sense.
His motives are fanatical. He thinks this is a holy war against evil.
Evil for him being the US. He is happy to die for his cause.
You have misunderstood the question. See above
You have misunderstood the answer. Read it.
I have, you have clearly misunderstood the question. Why do you say "the
enemy isn't reasonable" and "has no common sense"? Your racism is
showing
again.
I am certainty not racist. I have just bluntly put things as they are.
That's how many racists defend their racism. Oh, and I note you evaded the
question.
YOu don't know much about NBC warfare do you?
Not as an expert no.
So you speak from ignorance again. A gas mask would be pretty much
useless.
Not against Mustard Gas.
...a grenade full of which would be harmless. They had to lay mustard gas
down in prolonged, concentrated barrages in WWI.
I made a statement on the basis of what I believe you think about the
war. That's why I said what I said.
SO you made an assumption from ignorance in other words? OK....
Was my assumption you being against this war incorrect?
When you make assumptions you make an ***** of you and sumption.
You didn't answer my question I see. Which is an answer in itself.
No it isn't, you *****.
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's
World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
Janes are THE premier source of military reference books. They know
their
stuff, obviously you don't.
I have never heard about them. Are you pulling my leg?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Google away. my ignorant little friend...
It's up to you to supply the information YOU talk about. Not me.
I did, advised you to do a google search. So you are incapable of using
google? Can't say I'm surprised. Suffice to say, if you haven't heard of
Jane's, you have no business commenting about matters pertaining to
weapons
systems.
http://www.google.se/search?q=Jane%27s+reference+books&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=
sv&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning&meta=
Interesting.
Isn't it?
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short
range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent
suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear
testimony
I notice you ignore this bit . the testimony of an expert in the field..
Because perhaps they weren't biological just chemical.
Same applies to chemical weapons.
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
Well, in order to prove it I'd have to prove there are no WMD, and
even
the
most liberal, kiddiest person you probably know you can't prove a
negative.
A better intellectual exercise would be for YOU to prove to me how a
grenade
full of nuclear or biological agent is going to be a worthwhile
weapon,
and
then for you to prove that such weapons were actually issued by
pointing
to
reports of them being found. Off you go sonny.
Because these guys are crazy!! We don't know how their mind works!!
What?
You read what I said.
I did, it made no sense. You made no attempt to answer my points.
1) Prove to me how a grenade full of "WMD" can be a viable weapon
If it has mustard gas or similar it is.
No it isn't. Even a hundred grenades full of mustard gas wouldn't be a
viable weapon.
2) Prove that such weapons were manufactured
They obviously have been if the colonel's comments are true.
Which is teh crux of the matter. Judging by what he has siad, it seems VERY
unlikely he is telling the truth. Where's the corroborating evidence?
3) Prove that such weapons were issued.
What's that got to do with it?
Well, you see, my dear Guido, that woudl corroborate the Colonel's story.
Maybe they have developed a system that allows them to detonate these
weapons individually.
What?
It would make perfect sense with the "kamikaze" strategy.
I still don't see what your babbling about, how would a useless weapon
make
any sense, kamikaze strategy or not?
It certainly isn't useless.
It doesn't sound very useful.
.
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| User: "TonyZ2001" |
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| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
11 Dec 2003 04:51:24 AM |
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"tw"
wrote:
How many more times, guido? a grenade >full of bio/chem agent isn't a
particularly >useful weapon
Tom, your insistance that these must be the size of a hand held grenade is
really disingenuous. You know perfectly well that WMD can be used in small
rockets and mortars, or artillery.
Guido, as I have already explained, >mask aren't much help against bio/chem
agents.
All depends on what type of bio/chem agent is used, you know that.
Admit it Tom, it is perfectly feasible for the Feyadeen to have a hidden
sizable amounts of WMD that are in the form of small rockets or mortar shells.
Tony
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up, who will turn
their attention to the prophecies, in the midst of much clamor and opposition."
Sir Isaac Newton
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| User: "tw" |
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| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
11 Dec 2003 05:33:41 AM |
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"TonyZ2001" <tonyz2001@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031211055124.01726.00000553@mb-m18.aol.com...
"tw"
wrote:
How many more times, guido? a grenade >full of bio/chem agent isn't a
particularly >useful weapon
Tom, your insistance that these must be the size of a hand held grenade is
really disingenuous.
It's not MY inistence. From the original report:
"They arrived in boxes marked 'Made in Iraq' and looked like something
you fired with a rocket-propelled grenade,"
RPGs are just hand-grenades with rocket charges attached in essence.
You know perfectly well that WMD can be used in small
rockets and mortars, or artillery.
All of which fire shells considerably larger than the warhead of an RPG. The
most commonly used rocket by Iraqi forces are in the 120 mm calibre range.
Guido, as I have already explained, >mask aren't much help against
bio/chem
agents.
All depends on what type of bio/chem agent is used, you know that.
The point I'm trying to make is that an agent whcih a gas mask can protect
you from will likely need to be present in high concentration to kill your
enemy. Your not going to get anything liek the necessary concentration from
flinging grenades about unless you're in an enclosed space with no
ventilation.
Admit it Tom, it is perfectly feasible for the Feyadeen to have a hidden
sizable amounts of WMD that are in the form of small rockets or mortar
shells.
Of course that's feasible. It is unlikely though, they'd do much better
putting it in big rockets and artillery,, or just spraying it as an aerosol
like those loonies did in teh Japanese subway. It all comes down to what is
most likely - this chap's story sounds, well, unlikely.
.
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| User: "Guelfo" |
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| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi LineCommander |
11 Dec 2003 06:56:52 AM |
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tw wrote:
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD73F3D.70707@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD71E11.1090108@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have.
The ones that where captured didn't have them obviously.
Obviously! LOL
So you agree with me on that one.
Up to a point. They obviously can't have what doesn't exist can they?
The weapons exist they just didn't have them.
Where's your proof?
The colonel's words.
IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even air-defence
units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable to
read?
I didn't read that part.
Ah...
Perhaps the Telegraph reporter misunderstood the colonel on that bit.
Why would he have misunderstood that bit and not misunderstood the rest?
I
think you're clutching at straws there, old boy.
Actually from what I understand "Strella surface-to-air missiles" can
also be used against helicopters so that would make them into formidable
weapons.
What has that got to do with anything?
The fact that air-defense can also include defense against helicopters.
OK, my evidence is that most defectors/deserters/stoolpigeons tell
their
captors what they want to hear. My proof that he is talking ***** is
that
a)
Grenade sized WMD is a joke
These are NEW weapons.
Ah, so you think Iraq is the cutting edge of weapons development?
Yes.
THen you are an even bigger idiot than you first appeared to be.
Hey watch it punk!! I didn't insult you so abstain yourself from
insulting me.
And just because you think its a joke
Not just me, my old cocker, but expert mitary analysts and anyone who's
ever
had anything to do with NBC delivery systems..
Expert military analysts are in their warn rooms in their cosy houses
watching TV. They should let the boys get on with the war without
interfering with their totally unwarranted conclusions.
Non sequitor
You started talking about expert military analysts not me.
Your the one who went OT not me.
doesn't make them into one.
Perhaps not - the basic laws of physics and biochemistry make it a joke
though.
Have you seen these weapons?
Of course not,
So don't talk rubbish about them.
and I don't think anyone else has eother...
False. The colonel and other iraqis have.
I don't think so. So what makes you think
that these weapons go against the basic laws of physics and biochemistry?
How many more times, guido?
I am called Guelfo.
a grenade full of bio/chem agent isn't a
particularly useful weapon
They don't necessarily have to be grenades.
and b) None have been found anyway.
So what. He didn't say he knew where they were. He said he saw them.
So it is anecdotal evidence of an EXTREMELY unlikely weapons system.
Good
luck with your life if you believe stuff like that.
He is a valuable witness.
How?
He fought the war on the side of the iraqis.
He was in a position to see things.
What makes
him a reliable source?
He was a colonel in the Iraqi army.
THAT makes him a reliable source? LOL
Exactly. What part of being an iraqi officer makes him unreliable?
What part of being a colonel in the iraqi army makes him reliable`?
He is a defector.
*bzzt* wrong. By thir very nature defectors are unreliable sources of
information.
So I suppose the judges were wrong in indicting John Gotti on trial for
racketeering and other crimes on the basis of Salvatore Gravano's
accusations?
http://www.ganglandnews.com/gravano.htm
And guess what.
Sammy Bull Gravano was a defector of the Gambino family.
So what are you waiting for?
Go and tell the New York judges who condemned John Gotti on the basis of
Sammy Bull's testimony that they are all a bunch of idiots.
Tell them that Hey Presto "defectors" are unreliable sources of
information.
You don't have a clue do you?
Are you racist by chance?
I certainly didn't indicate whether it was the colonel part, the Iraqi
part
or the armed forces part which made him unreliable. Perhaps you
subconsciously assumed I think like you?
I am certainly not a racist!
How dare you assume a thing like that?
It was the subtext in your reasoning. YOu assumed I thought he was
unreliable because he was Iraqi when I wrote no such thing.
I didn't assume a thing. I asked YOU whether you were a racist.
Your the one who did the accusing.
That's their opinion and they are entitled to it.
A defence experts opinion sort of trumps that of a deserting colonel...
This one is your opinion.
Nope, defence experts tend to know a lot more about weapons systems than
colonels do. Soent much time around the military in your life?
I have spent enough thank you As to your opinion that defence experts
know a lot more than colonels, what makes you assume that the colonel
wasn't a defence expert?
His story. It's ridiculous.
That's just your opinion. If you have evidence proving his story is
wrong please come forward with it.
To me it makes perfect sense. Especially used by the Fedayeen. Their
the
ones who use "kamikaze" tactics like the palestinians.
So why were they told to wear gas masks if it's a kamikaze attack?
Maybe because only one of them has to make the suicide attack the rest
help in the plan.
What the hell are you on about? And why haven't we seen any suicide
attacks
with these weapons? We've seen several with conventional explosives
Perhaps the orders are that Saddam himself must give the order to use
them.
Brilliant! You really are a clown.
Or maybe as the article says, a group of Fedayeen was going to use
one of the warheads then changed their mind on the basis that:
"They were going to use this weapon, but then they realised that they
would kill lots of Iraqis who did not have masks, they put them in their
cars and drove off."
Guido, as I have already explained, mask aren't much help against bio/chem
agents. Plus, I really don't think the guerillas in Iraq are too worried
about civilian casualties, they haven't tried very hard to limit them so far
have they?
But a bio/chemical attack might make hundreds of them even he Fedayeen's
might think twice before unleashing such terror.
Do you
have ANY IDEA of how much chemical agent you need to produce the
neccesary
concentration to kill people? Obviously not...
Plenty I believe.
Yes. Now then, how much can you fit in a grenade? Especially assuming
you
need a bursting charge to propogate the stuff? "Plenty"?
Perhaps these aren't bio-chemical agents just brands of Mustard gas as
used in World War I.
Evasion noted...in any case a grenade full would be pretty much harmless.
Well depends how it is used I imagine. Still they could still be in the
form of small rockets and mortars.
Do you think grenade sized WMD sound like a sensible proposition?!
Not sensible no. But the enemy isn't reasonable, he has no common
sense.
His motives are fanatical. He thinks this is a holy war against evil.
Evil for him being the US. He is happy to die for his cause.
You have misunderstood the question. See above
You have misunderstood the answer. Read it.
I have, you have clearly misunderstood the question. Why do you say "the
enemy isn't reasonable" and "has no common sense"? Your racism is
showing
again.
I am certainty not racist. I have just bluntly put things as they are.
That's how many racists defend their racism.
I have already told you I am NOT a racist.
Oh, and I note you evaded the
question.
I said "the enemy isn't reasonable" because they have been cases of
suicide attacks made by the Fedayeen and to me a kamikaze attack is
completely unreasonable.
YOu don't know much about NBC warfare do you?
Not as an expert no.
So you speak from ignorance again. A gas mask would be pretty much
useless.
Not against Mustard Gas.
..a grenade full of which would be harmless. They had to lay mustard gas
down in prolonged, concentrated barrages in WWI.
I said Mustard Gas as an assumption. Obviously it could be something
more powerful. Are you aware of the gas the Russians used against the
Chechen rebels in the Moscow theater?
You only needed an antidote against that gas and that stuff was lethal.
I made a statement on the basis of what I believe you think about the
war. That's why I said what I said.
SO you made an assumption from ignorance in other words? OK....
Was my assumption you being against this war incorrect?
When you make assumptions you make an ***** of you and sumption.
You didn't answer my question I see. Which is an answer in itself.
No it isn't, you *****.
Well answer then.
And the Daily Mail quotes Major Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's
World
Armies, as calling the claims by the Lt-Colonel "very strange."
Ah, the opinion of an expert at last : "very strange".
Jane's World Armies? What the hell is that?
Janes are THE premier source of military reference books. They know
their
stuff, obviously you don't.
I have never heard about them. Are you pulling my leg?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Google away. my ignorant little friend...
It's up to you to supply the information YOU talk about. Not me.
I did, advised you to do a google search. So you are incapable of using
google? Can't say I'm surprised. Suffice to say, if you haven't heard of
Jane's, you have no business commenting about matters pertaining to
weapons
systems.
http://www.google.se/search?q=Jane%27s+reference+books&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=
sv&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning&meta=
Interesting.
Isn't it?
Yes.
"Biological weapons can't really be used effectively at short
range,
and are no use to a frontline commander," he told The Daily Mail,
which speculates that Lord Hutton's inquiry into the apparent
suicide
of weapons scientist Dr David Kelly may be reopened to hear
testimony
I notice you ignore this bit . the testimony of an expert in the field..
Because perhaps they weren't biological just chemical.
Same applies to chemical weapons.
That depends.
If you believe the colonel is lying prove-it you liberal kid!
Well, in order to prove it I'd have to prove there are no WMD, and
even
the
most liberal, kiddiest person you probably know you can't prove a
negative.
A better intellectual exercise would be for YOU to prove to me how a
grenade
full of nuclear or biological agent is going to be a worthwhile
weapon,
and
then for you to prove that such weapons were actually issued by
pointing
to
reports of them being found. Off you go sonny.
Because these guys are crazy!! We don't know how their mind works!!
What?
You read what I said.
I did, it made no sense. You made no attempt to answer my points.
1) Prove to me how a grenade full of "WMD" can be a viable weapon
If it has mustard gas or similar it is.
No it isn't. Even a hundred grenades full of mustard gas wouldn't be a
viable weapon.
I am sure that even mustard gas the have nowadays is significantly
different from the one they had in World War I.
2) Prove that such weapons were manufactured
They obviously have been if the colonel's comments are true.
Which is teh crux of the matter. Judging by what he has siad, it seems VERY
unlikely he is telling the truth. Where's the corroborating evidence?
Well. Don't forget that the last inspections made by the US found a vial
of botulinium in the fridge of one of the scientists. And that wasn't
declared.
3) Prove that such weapons were issued.
What's that got to do with it?
Well, you see, my dear Guido, that woudl corroborate the Colonel's story.
I am not Guido. I am Guelfo.
Maybe they have developed a system that allows them to detonate these
weapons individually.
What?
It would make perfect sense with the "kamikaze" strategy.
I still don't see what your babbling about, how would a useless weapon
make
any sense, kamikaze strategy or not?
It certainly isn't useless.
It doesn't sound very useful.
Because you haven't seen it in use.
.
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| User: "tw" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD deployed in *30* minutes, not 45... according to Iraqi Line Commander |
11 Dec 2003 09:23:16 AM |
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|
"Guelfo" <pippopoppo1@libero.it> wrote in message
news:3FD86989.6050704@libero.it...
tw wrote:
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD73F3D.70707@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
"Guelfo" <EGuelfo@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3FD71E11.1090108@netscape.net...
tw wrote:
Plenty of Fedayeen have
been killed and captured, yet none of these weapons have.
The ones that where captured didn't have them obviously.
Obviously! LOL
So you agree with me on that one.
Up to a point. They obviously can't have what doesn't exist can they?
The weapons exist they just didn't have them.
Where's your proof?
The colonel's words.
That's EVIDENCE, not proof. And completely uncorroborated evidence at that.
IN addition, these
weapons were allegedly widely distributed such that even
air-defence
units
ended up with them! (and AD units weren't Fedayeen) are you unable
to
read?
I didn't read that part.
Ah...
Perhaps the Telegraph reporter misunderstood the colonel on that bit.
Why would he have misunderstood that bit and not misunderstood the
rest?
I
think you're clutching at straws there, old boy.
Actually from what I understand "Strella surface-to-air missiles" can
also be used against helicopters so that would make them into formidable
weapons.
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