WMD will never be found in Iraq
__________________________________________________________________________________
Weapons of Mass Destruction will never be found in Iraq.
Unless the Bush Administration "plants" them there.
During the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq, the Bush Administration wanted to create a
connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam's government.
But in reality, there was no such connection.
Iraq was not making fast progress with any nuclear weapons program.
All in all, Iraq was not an imminent security threat to the United States.
However, Cheney made multiple and frequent visits to CIA headquarters during this period.
Cheney's staff also used to tag along during these visits.
Cheney and his staff wanted to ensure that CIA assessments fitted with the Administration's
policy objectives.
Senior intelligence officials and also CIA analysts were pressured by this visiting bunch to
supply them with reports which justified their planned invasion.
This resulted in a culture within the CIA of packaging information and presenting that information
to superiors in such a way that can only be described as "invasion orientated".
This culture became more intense as the information went up to each higher level within the CIA.
All of this was because the Bush Administration had made it quite clear to the CIA that they were
only interested in getting that which suited their policy.
It was the Bush Administration which was guilty of painting a false picture of an imminent
danger to the USA from Iraq, so as to justify their planned invasion.
Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction do not exist.
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
__________________________________________________________________________________
.
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|
| User: "Kim Herfurth" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 12:02:56 PM |
|
|
ron b.
(A disabled Brit. <Royal-> Air Force veteran living in Berlin Germany for
more than 20 years.)
Seems you've made your disability quite evident from your rantings and your
residence
.
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| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 02:40:34 PM |
|
|
Are you claiming that Prescott Bush was not a banker to the NSDAP?
Or that he is not the grandfather of the present Bush?
Can you explain to me what logical connection you see between living
in Berlin and my disability... other than the realistic one that some
25 years ago the British Govt. made it more difficult for war
disabled veterans to get regular employment whereas in Germany not
many questions were asked if one just worked hard.
It's so appropriate in this Year of the Disabled Citizen that you so
actively stigmatise.
The most important thing in this is not your ugly attack on a
disabled person but the dangerous realities that you try to dismiss
with this attack.
Ron Bartle
(p.s. If you should have any interest in facts and not just blind
predujice - then take a look at:
http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm for instance.)
rb
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Kim Herfurth [mailto:kherfurth@woh.rr.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. Juli 2003 18:53
An: Ronald J. Bartle
Betreff: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq
ron b.
(A disabled Brit. <Royal-> Air Force veteran living in Berlin
Germany for
more than 20 years.)
Seems you've made your disability quite evident from your rantings
and your
residence!
.
|
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|
| User: "Kim Herfurth" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
18 Jul 2003 11:48:34 AM |
|
|
Though the Bush family's detractors are legion, one of the most prominent is
John Loftus, a former federal prosecutor and past president of the Florida
Holocaust Museum in Saint Petersburg. In 1994 Loftus coauthored a book with
Mark Aarons entitled The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage
Betrayed the Jewish People. The book alleges various misdeeds by George W.'s
father, George H.W., his grandfather, Prescott Bush, and his
great-grandfather, George Herbert Walker. Since space is limited we'll focus
on the accusations against Prescott Bush, which in my opinion are the most
serious.
The central charge against Prescott Bush has a basis in fact. In 1942, under
the Trading With the Enemy Act, the U.S. government seized several companies
in which he had an interest. Prescott at the time was an investment banker
with Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), which had funneled U.S. capital into
Germany during the 1920s and '30s. Among the seized companies was the Union
Banking Corporation (UBC) of New York, which was controlled by German
industrialist Fritz Thyssen. Thyssen had been an early financier of the Nazi
party--in fact, in 1941 he published a book entitled I Paid Hitler. Ergo,
Prescott helped finance the Nazis.
An article by journalist Toby Rogers posted on Loftus's Web site makes an
even more explosive charge. Another company in which Prescott and his
associates had a stake was the Silesian-American Corporation (SAC), which
owned several industrial concerns in Poland. The Auschwitz death camp was
established in a district where SAC already had a steel plant. The plant
allegedly used forced labor from Auschwitz during World War II. The article
asserts that "a portion of the slave labor force in Poland was 'managed by
Prescott Bush,' according to a Dutch intelligence agent." (See
www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.asp.)
The slave labor charge is easy to dismiss. SAC plants in Poland were taken
over by the German government after the Nazi invasion of 1939, and the
Auschwitz prison camp wasn't established until 1940. No one can seriously
claim that Prescott Bush managed camp inmates in any of those plants.
Prescott's involvement with Nazi finance is more complicated. Though Thyssen
had been an ardent backer of the Nazis in the early days, he broke with them
in 1938 after the Kristallnacht pogrom against the Jews. He fled to
Switzerland the following year, and Hitler confiscated his fortune and
stripped him of his citizenship. In I Paid Hitler Thyssen confessed his role
in financing the Nazis and denounced the Führer. Arrested in Vichy France,
he spent the balance of the war as an Axis prisoner. Prescott Bush, for his
part, owned a single share of stock (of 4,000) in UBC, the Thyssen bank.
According to a 2001 Boston Globe piece, the New York Herald Tribune ran a
story in July 1942 headlined "Hitler's Angel Has 3 Million in US Bank," in
which Prescott and other BBH partners "explain[ed] to government regulators
that their position [as directors of UBC] was merely an unpaid courtesy for
a client."
So, did Bush and his firm finance the Nazis and enable Germany to rearm?
Indirectly, yes. But they had a lot of company. Some of the most
distinguished names in American business had investments or subsidiaries in
prewar Germany, including Standard Oil and General Motors. Critics have
argued for years that without U.S. money, the Nazis could never have waged
war. But American business has always invested in totalitarian
regimes--witness our dealings with mainland China.
Loftus tells me there's more to it than that. He says that the value of
German industrial assets in which Bush and friends invested increased during
World War II, in part due to slave labor, and that Bush benefited from this
increase when the assets were returned--supposedly he got $1.5 million when
UBC was liquidated in 1951. I'll buy the claim that Bush got his share of
UBC back--it was an American bank, after all--but the idea that his German
holdings increased in value despite being obliterated by Allied bombs is
ridiculous.
--CECIL ADAMS
[Cecil Adams can deliver the Straight Dope on any topic. Write Cecil at
cecil@chicagoreader.com.
.
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
18 Jul 2003 03:51:31 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:48:34 GMT, "Kim Herfurth" <kherfurth@woh.rr.com> wrote:
Though the Bush family's detractors are legion
Not true. Not near as many as the democrat propagandists like you would like
there to be. So all your `facts' came from a book...amusing. You are desperate.
.
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| User: "VH-MR2" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
18 Jul 2003 05:27:45 PM |
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|
ah .. classic example .. snip almost all of a post and respond with some 1/2
wit ***** that means absolutely nothing but the fact that you are a troll
....
TROLL TROLL TROLL
Why not shut up and let the grownups talk?
"vonroach" <voncockroach@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:hanghv0m2dhlf3o2nu95vklfcpq0b0boib@4ax.com...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:48:34 GMT, "Kim Herfurth" <kherfurth@woh.rr.com>
wrote:
Though the Bush family's detractors are legion
Not true. Not near as many as the democrat propagandists like you would
like
there to be. So all your `facts' came from a book...amusing. You are
desperate.
.
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|
| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
19 Jul 2003 06:37:17 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 08:27:45 +1000, "VH-MR2"
<sickoyouNOTREQUIRED@ZZZZZwarbirdz.net> wrote:
TROLL TROLL TROLL
Why not shut up and let the grownups talk?
You should heed your advice.
.
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| User: "Rogene" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
18 Jul 2003 08:18:08 PM |
|
|
Would you please remove alt.support.breast-implants from all political
threads?
In approximately the past 24 hours, over 100 messages have been posted on
this
board, none of which have anything to do with breast implants.
This board is designated for women experiencing problems with breast
implants and searching for information and support.
Thank you for kindness and consideration.
.
|
|
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
19 Jul 2003 06:47:13 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:18:08 GMT, "Rogene" <saxony01@yahoonojunk.com> wrote:
Would you please remove alt.support.breast-implants from all political
threads?
In approximately the past 24 hours, over 100 messages have been posted on
this
board, none of which have anything to do with breast implants.
This board is designated for women experiencing problems with breast
implants and searching for information and support.
Thank you for kindness and consideration.
Pilgrim -Your message is crossposted to 8 or 9 different news groups. Most are
radical extreme left wing groups. One or more of your posters are probably
propagandists for one of these groups. You paint with a broad brush.
By the way, do you feel qualified to advise women on a medical matter? Frankly,
I doubt that.
.
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 04:32:25 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:02:56 GMT, "Kim Herfurth" <kherfurth@woh.rr.com> wrote:
ron b.
(A disabled Brit. <Royal-> Air Force veteran living in Berlin Germany for
more than 20 years.)
Seems you've made your disability quite evident from your rantings and your
residence
His brain is disabled and this probably keeps him from finding work.
.
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| User: "Cobra" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
13 Jul 2003 06:22:34 PM |
|
|
Bush and his criminal gang was intent of plundering Iraq and securing the
US/ISRAEL geo-political objectives no matter what.
A nuclear bomb production facility cannot be hidden from the prying eyes of
sattlelites and certainly not from intrusive ground inspection by Ritter and
Hans Blix. A good example is China and Korea. Every nuclear facility have
been comprehensively catalog with the help of sattelite surveillance. In the
case of Iraq, no a single photograph exist of its suspected WMD facilities.
How could the UN and the world allowed this criminal gang to get away with
this blatant lie? How can American mothers and wifes of these troops allow
this criminal gang to send fine young men to their deaths?
<grub@internet.charitydays.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bs91hv87bbu4v6v05sm95qvpbbne6q2h2k@4ax.com...
WMD will never be found in Iraq
____________________________________________________________________________
______
Weapons of Mass Destruction will never be found in Iraq.
Unless the Bush Administration "plants" them there.
During the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq, the Bush Administration
wanted to create a
connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam's government.
But in reality, there was no such connection.
Iraq was not making fast progress with any nuclear weapons program.
All in all, Iraq was not an imminent security threat to the United
States.
However, Cheney made multiple and frequent visits to CIA headquarters
during this period.
Cheney's staff also used to tag along during these visits.
Cheney and his staff wanted to ensure that CIA assessments fitted with the
Administration's
policy objectives.
Senior intelligence officials and also CIA analysts were pressured by this
visiting bunch to
supply them with reports which justified their planned invasion.
This resulted in a culture within the CIA of packaging information and
presenting that information
to superiors in such a way that can only be described as "invasion
orientated".
This culture became more intense as the information went up to each higher
level within the CIA.
All of this was because the Bush Administration had made it quite clear to
the CIA that they were
only interested in getting that which suited their policy.
It was the Bush Administration which was guilty of painting a false
picture of an imminent
danger to the USA from Iraq, so as to justify their planned invasion.
Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction do not exist.
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
____________________________________________________________________________
______
.
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| User: "WH" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
13 Jul 2003 07:57:34 AM |
|
|
"vonroach" <vonroach@earthlink.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:nhk2hvg10e06c9fosat12h9iogbarth6gv@4ax.com...
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:22:34 -0700, "Cobra" <lapalma@singnet.com.sg>
wrote:
A nuclear bomb production facility cannot be hidden from the prying eyes
of
sattlelites and certainly not from intrusive ground inspection by Ritter
and
Hans Blix. A good example is China and Korea. Every nuclear facility have
been comprehensively catalog with the help of sattelite surveillance. In
the
case of Iraq, no a single photograph exist of its suspected WMD
facilities.
Inspections by the clowns Ritter and Blix? A couple of morons like that
are
lucky to find the floor when they get out of bed. You extremists morons
think
that the UN is trustworthy. Iraq had plenty of help in assembling weapons
from
Syria, Iran, China, France, Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc. And their `mosques',
schools, hospitals, and homes were packed with the ones they couldn't
bury.
You are a jackass spinning propaganda for murderers.
What an idiot!
You mean that the only trustworthy source for anything is the idiot yankies?
Is that it? No one else but the stupid yankies know anything...if the stupid
yanks say it's true then it's true...even when the rest of the world has
proven it to be wrong?
Ritter and Blix are only clowns because they disputed yankie *****.
WH
.
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| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
13 Jul 2003 11:02:22 AM |
|
|
"vonroach" <vonroach@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nhk2hvg10e06c9fosat12h9iogbarth6gv@4ax.com...
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:22:34 -0700, "Cobra" <lapalma@singnet.com.sg>
wrote:
A nuclear bomb production facility cannot be hidden from the prying eyes
of
sattlelites and certainly not from intrusive ground inspection by Ritter
and
Hans Blix. A good example is China and Korea. Every nuclear facility have
been comprehensively catalog with the help of sattelite surveillance. In
the
case of Iraq, no a single photograph exist of its suspected WMD
facilities.
Inspections by the clowns Ritter and Blix? A couple of morons like that
are
lucky to find the floor when they get out of bed. You extremists morons
think
that the UN is trustworthy. Iraq had plenty of help in assembling weapons
from
Syria, Iran, China, France, Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc. And their `mosques',
schools, hospitals, and homes were packed with the ones they couldn't
bury.
You are a jackass spinning propaganda for murderers.
Spoken as if you knew what you were talking about............
But you obviously don't............
Moron.........
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
.
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| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
16 Jul 2003 09:16:54 AM |
|
|
"Jez" <hellward@NOTSPAMdsl.pipex.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3f118235$0$18496$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
"vonroach" <vonroach@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nhk2hvg10e06c9fosat12h9iogbarth6gv@4ax.com...
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:22:34 -0700, "Cobra"
<lapalma@singnet.com.sg>
wrote:
A nuclear bomb production facility cannot be hidden from the
prying eyes
of
sattlelites and certainly not from intrusive ground inspection
by Ritter
and
Hans Blix. A good example is China and Korea. Every nuclear
facility have
been comprehensively catalog with the help of sattelite
surveillance. In
the
case of Iraq, no a single photograph exist of its suspected WMD
facilities.
/ -- /
--
Ho hum
Jez
"Few of us can easily surrender our belief that
society must somehow make sense. The thought
that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so
many innocent people is intolerable. And so the
evidence has to be internally denied."
- Arthur Miller
So all through history there has never been an instance where a
sovereign state has been hijacked by an individual or relativel small
group seeking personal empowerment, riches and alledegly following
some "special calling?"
Remember Prescott Bush - New York Banker to the German Nazi Party
(NSDAP) and grandfather of the person now following the familie's
dynastic ploy of persueing warefar for personal enrichment.
ron b.
.
|
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
16 Jul 2003 04:53:03 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:16:54 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle" <RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
So all through history there has never been an instance where a
sovereign state has been hijacked by an individual or relativel small
group seeking personal empowerment, riches and alledegly following
some "special calling?"
This is the rule not the exception. The `special calling' in the 20th century
was `Marxism (communism) and fascism - which differed very little. Fanatic
dictators and murders - Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco - birds of a feather.
I snipped your little propaganda lie appended to a general truth. This is
similar to Goebbel's technique. It detracts from your credibility. Of course any
German or French comment on America must be taken with a grain of salt in view
of their antiAmerican bias which rivals their antiSemitic bias. Proterrorist
sentiments are more common in that cesspool.
.
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| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 02:31:36 PM |
|
|
"vonroach" <vonroach@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:eqhbhv4tq2vpe0qea1bkqs52vc4jj1nda5@4ax.com...
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:16:54 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle"
<RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
So all through history there has never been an instance where a
sovereign state has been hijacked by an individual or relativel
small
group seeking personal empowerment, riches and alledegly following
some "special calling?"
This is the rule not the exception. The `special calling' in the
20th century
was `Marxism (communism) and fascism - which differed very little.
Fanatic
dictators and murders - Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco - birds
of a feather.
I snipped your little propaganda lie appended to a general truth.
Which statement of mine was a lie?
This is
similar to Goebbel's technique. It detracts from your credibility.
Of course any
German or French comment on America must be taken with a grain of
salt in view
of their antiAmerican bias which rivals their antiSemitic bias.
I have made no comment on "America" - I have just stated my views
that the -present- leader seems to be continuing a familiar and
dynastic line of profiting from instigating warfare as his
grandfather Prescott Bush did in the 30's and 40's.
I am not anti- American - I have worked in the past in responsible
jobs on US State Dept. contracts with ITT and directly for the US
Army in Germany.
What interests me is to encourage the US voter to be aware of what
they are dealing with and to return to the old system where ther
person who gets the most votes ends up as president. All other
problems would be resolved in this case if this basic tennant of
constitutional democracy had been adhered too.
Who is anti Semetic... ask a previous employer of mine (at least his
son is still alive) Mr. Cohen of Clintons Solicitors, Lawyers of some
considerable promenence in London - wether he (his son..) has any
reason to consider me anti- Semetic.
Anti- specific crimes which aspects of Zionism have inflicted on
many - perhaps - but the opposition is not to Jews (Arabic peoples
are also semetic of course) but to violent occupation and arrogant
dissregard over decades to UN Security Council resoloutions. Why
invade Iraq because they ignore or are claimed to have ignored ( as
we now know there seems to be no smokeing gun as to WMD's) UN
Resoloutions for a year or two - while the State of Israel has been
defying the UN for decades as to the demand for withdrawal to the pre
1967 borders is not even actively critizised? Are you sure that a
majority of Israeli citizens would not be quite happy to live in the
pre- 1967 borders in peace with thier neighbours. The exception is
those who have settled on land stolen from thier neighbours who seem
to consider pointing a MP at people preferable to buying legal
building land elsewhere.
Proterrorist sentiments are more common in that cesspool
By the way - How much time have you spent here in Europe - in
Germany - in order to be able to make moralistic judgments that we
live here in a cesspool? How much time have you spent in the Middle
East. Have you served in the Military. Do you really know
personally what you are referring too. .I have spent most of my life
in various European nations - spent a total of about one year in a
numbe of Middle East nations - mostly on Air Force service.
While your good self describes my submittion as anti- American - when
it is not - (but a factual concern relating to real threats to
decency and the rule of international law which has been comming from
the same direction for decades and is again in a dangerous active
phase) you make a sweeping anti- European statement such as calling
the place a "cesspool."
In what respect are the nations of Europe a "cesspool.." More crime
than in the US - less respect for (inernational-?) law and order than
the US - less productive? Less easily duped and led astray peraps -
if that is a qualification for being a "cesspool" - let it be so.
I hope and pray that the US voter will soon wake up to the heist that
has befallen them and that the US will return to being a great
positive force in world affairs soon instead of having itself used to
generate power and wealth for a small group of manipulative
individuals, wether they have sworn allegions to the Skull and
Crossbones or not.
What's your definition of a terrorist?
ron b.
.
|
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 04:36:24 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:31:36 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle" <RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
I am not anti- American - I have worked in the past in responsible
jobs on US State Dept. contracts with ITT and directly for the US
Army in Germany.
Another change of story, another lie. Trollbaby you are a jackass in addition
to being a moron.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 04:58:13 PM |
|
|
"vonroach" <vonroach@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ek5ehvonmitc3dofgau6n3ahvhnfua1h1p@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:31:36 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle"
<RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
I am not anti- American - I have worked in the past in responsible
jobs on US State Dept. contracts with ITT and directly for the US
Army in Germany.
Another change of story, another lie. Trollbaby you are a jackass
in addition
to being a moron.
ITT Compound Sullivan Bks - Mannheim
Bulk Logistics Whse. Seckenheim Bks. Mannheim.
Checkpoint NCOs' Club, Clay Allee - Berlin
and no - I am not going to give any more details - it would be anti-
America to do that when the nation is at war - no matter who's war
and no matter how legitimate or otherwise it is.
ron b.
bt
NNNN
.
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
18 Jul 2003 07:10:42 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:58:13 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle" <RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
goebbels...gobbels...gobbels...
This pathetic German turkey continues his fantasy life of a `poor disabled vet
with medals'. What a laugh!
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 06:56:49 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:53:03 GMT, vonroach <vonroach@earthlink.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:16:54 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle" <RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
So all through history there has never been an instance where a
sovereign state has been hijacked by an individual or relativel small
group seeking personal empowerment, riches and alledegly following
some "special calling?"
This is the rule not the exception. The `special calling' in the 20th century
was `Marxism (communism) and fascism - which differed very little. Fanatic
dictators and murders - Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco - birds of a feather.
I snipped your little propaganda lie appended to a general truth. This is
similar to Goebbel's technique. It detracts from your credibility. Of course any
German or French comment on America must be taken with a grain of salt in view
of their antiAmerican bias which rivals their antiSemitic bias. Proterrorist
sentiments are more common in that cesspool.
You can add us CANADIANS as well, most of us believe Bush is a
dictator as well.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 02:33:22 PM |
|
|
<DaarkSyde@yahoo.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:km3dhvc0pdke4juk7g9bmjone3c59ho52o@4ax.com...
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:53:03 GMT, vonroach <vonroach@earthlink.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:16:54 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle"
<RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
So all through history there has never been an instance where a
sovereign state has been hijacked by an individual or relativel
small
group seeking personal empowerment, riches and alledegly
following
some "special calling?"
This is the rule not the exception. The `special calling' in the
20th century
was `Marxism (communism) and fascism - which differed very little.
Fanatic
dictators and murders - Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco - birds
of a feather.
If the guy is against Stalin and Mussolini - how come he is not
concerned about somebody from the family that financed AH and founded
a political dynasty from profits from the II World War - this makes
no sence to me at all...?
ron b.
I snipped your little propaganda lie appended to a general truth.
This is
similar to Goebbel's technique. It detracts from your credibility.
Of course any
German or French comment on America must be taken with a grain of
salt in view
of their antiAmerican bias which rivals their antiSemitic bias.
Proterrorist
sentiments are more common in that cesspool.
You can add us CANADIANS as well, most of us believe Bush is a
dictator as well.
.
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| User: "vonroach" |
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| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 04:30:52 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:33:22 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle" <RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
this makes
no sence to me at all...?
Trollbaby, that's because you are a moron.
(When you return to school, try and learn how to spell sense, at least, even if
it makes no sense to your brain mush.
.
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| User: "vonroach" |
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| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 04:27:54 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:56:49 -0400, wrote:
You can add us CANADIANS
I see, you speak for all Canadians? I doubt that. You just want to bray a
little. Of course the Montreal `Canadians' often enjoy pretending they are
french, morons that some of them are. And of course American citizens who have
sneaked across the border for a variety of bad reasons (particularly in British
Columbia) can be expected to be antiAmerican. And a large group of middle
easterners living in Canada with terrorist aspirations.
.
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| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
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| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 04:54:48 PM |
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"vonroach" <vonroach@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:2r4ehv8a6h5alh3c95pmjj815on3accslh@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:56:49 -0400, wrote:
You can add us CANADIANS
I see, you speak for all Canadians? I doubt that. You just want to
bray a
little. Of course the Montreal `Canadians' often enjoy pretending
they are
french, morons that some of them are. And of course American
citizens who have
sneaked across the border for a variety of bad reasons
(particularly in British
Columbia) can be expected to be antiAmerican.
And a large group of middle
easterners living in Canada with terrorist aspirations.
*IF* this last statement _was_ true - what do you think would be the
reason for it??? Where does all the hatred come from - why is it
there...? People really hate *freedom* so much that they risked being
bombed to hell in the name of freedom in order to oppose it?
Hmmmm....?
ron b.
God bless America with a return to democratical electorially
legitimate leadership.
bt
NNNN
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| User: "Kim Herfurth" |
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| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 02:41:12 PM |
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In response to two personal emails to me from Ron B. after I sent...
ron b.
(A disabled Brit. <Royal-> Air Force veteran living in Berlin Germany for
more than 20 years.)
Seems you've made your disability quite evident from your rantings and your
residence!
Can you explain to me what logical connection you see
between living in Berlin and my disability... other than
the realistic one that some 25 years ago the British Govt.
made it more difficult for war disabled veterans to get
regular employment whereas in Germany not many questions
were asked if one just worked hard.
It's so appropriate in this Year of the Disabled Citizen
that you so actively stigmatise.
(that's spelled Stigmatize)
The most important thing in this is not your ugly attack on
a disabled person but the dangerous realities that you try
to dismiss with this attack.
Ron Bartle
Let's get the disability issue out of the way, first! Or should I wait for
you to rethink my original message, again and see if you can go on in a
different direction?
I've been thinking a little more about the message here.
Basically what you are saying is that it it somehow ok for
Bush's granddad to finance the German Nazis and profit
directly from having played a decisive role in getting the
II World War underway - but not ok for a British war
disabled guy to come here in the 80's and do heavy
construction work and drive a truck etc?
(LET ME GUESS, RON, YOU ARE NOT RECEIVING ANY KIND OF PENSION FOR YOUR
DISABILITY FROM GREAT BRITON)
How come - what's so good about being the banker to the
German nazi party in the 30'- 40's and what is so bad about
building and trucking here in the 80's?
Sorry I don't get your arguments?
Ron B.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Kim Herfurth [mailto:kherfurth@woh.rr.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. Juli 2003 18:53
An: Ronald J. Bartle
Betreff: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq
To: Ron B.
You're the one that had to make it apparent that you were disabled. What the
hell did that have to do with the subject matter? I made no attack on your
specific disability, other than implying that you may have mental processes
leaning off in an extreme direction! Don't pass it around, but I'm disabled,
also. But I don't use it for sympathy and some sort of a shield to hide
behind or try to make me seem more or less credible.
You seem to like throwing it around the same as you living in Germany, the
last 20 years, make you any more an expert on American affairs, or ancestry.
Has living in Germany influenced your belief of the Holocaust, or was that
just a figment of some Jews to get the United States involved in WWII? Don't
tell anyone, I'm not Jewish, either!
Oh, wait, that had nothing to do with the subject, either!! See how easy it
is to throw out 'nothings' to distract from having to explain an blanket
accusation that you make.
Now to your initial 'attack'!
Are you claiming that Prescott Bush was not a banker to the NSDAP? Or that
he is not the grandfather of the present Bush?
If you dig hard enough in anyone's past you are bound to find an ancestor of
some distasteful or criminal dealings. What you are fond of doing, like many
in 'my own country', and re-write history...how far back in the past should
the argument go?
I am an American...I've never owned a slave, or been a slave. I think being
a minority does not make you noble or victimized. I haven't burned any
witches. I've never shot an Indian or a Mexican. I didn't intern any
Japanese Americans. I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot
works, I don't want you deciding who should be running the most powerful
nation in the world for the next four years. I believe if she has her lips
on your Willie, it's sex, and this applies even if you are President of the
United States. I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it makes you
a smart American. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God
when and where they want to. I know professional wrestling is fake and I
don't waste my time arguing about it. I think global warming is a big lie.
Where are all those experts now, when I'm freezing my ***** off during these
long winters and paying, paying, paying?
Wait, Wait...I've thought of something I may be guilty of..... My
Grandfather may have shot some Germans in WWI!!!!!! Or maybe my Uncles may
have shot some German in WWII!!!!!
My Grandfather was gassed in WWI and was disabled. But, I haven't held that,
or damned any present day Germans Nationals!
By the way, when you've lived in this country, as a citizen, then I might
listen to any of your 'legitimate accusations about 'my' President!
Oh, also, I don't receive any disability pension of any kind!
If there is any credible evidence of criminal wrong doing by President Bush,
or any other President, or elected official, I'd be first in line for jury
duty! But I won't allow or be involved in an 'assignation by headline' or
'bar room barrister!!'
So if you don't have anything intelligent to say, backed by real evidence,
or you were there, then "Shut the Hell up!!"
Kim Herfurth
.
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| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 03:21:10 PM |
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"Kim Herfurth" <kherfurth@woh.rr.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:sZCRa.7265$ib2.1453783@twister.neo.rr.com...
In response to two personal emails to me from Ron B. after I
sent...
ron b.
(A disabled Brit. <Royal-> Air Force veteran living in Berlin
Germany for
more than 20 years.)
Seems you've made your disability quite evident from your rantings
and your
residence!
Can you explain to me what logical connection you see
between living in Berlin and my disability... other than
the realistic one that some 25 years ago the British Govt.
made it more difficult for war disabled veterans to get
regular employment whereas in Germany not many questions
were asked if one just worked hard.
It's so appropriate in this Year of the Disabled Citizen
that you so actively stigmatise.
(that's spelled Stigmatize)
Not by a Brit - but then your convinced I am a Gerry anyhows...
The most important thing in this is not your ugly attack on
a disabled person but the dangerous realities that you try
to dismiss with this attack.
Ron Bartle
Let's get the disability issue out of the way, first! Or should I
wait for
you to rethink my original message, again and see if you can go on
in a
different direction?
I've been thinking a little more about the message here.
Basically what you are saying is that it it somehow ok for
Bush's granddad to finance the German Nazis and profit
directly from having played a decisive role in getting the
II World War underway - but not ok for a British war
disabled guy to come here in the 80's and do heavy
construction work and drive a truck etc?
(LET ME GUESS, RON, YOU ARE NOT RECEIVING ANY KIND OF PENSION FOR
YOUR
DISABILITY FROM GREAT BRITON)
How come - what's so good about being the banker to the
German nazi party in the 30'- 40's and what is so bad about
building and trucking here in the 80's?
Sorry I don't get your arguments?
Ron B.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Kim Herfurth [mailto:kherfurth@woh.rr.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. Juli 2003 18:53
An: Ronald J. Bartle
Betreff: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq
To: Ron B.
You're the one that had to make it apparent that you were disabled.
What the
hell did that have to do with the subject matter? I made no attack
on your
specific disability, other than implying that you may have mental
processes
leaning off in an extreme direction! Don't pass it around, but I'm
disabled,
also. But I don't use it for sympathy and some sort of a shield to
hide
behind or try to make me seem more or less credible.
You seem to like throwing it around the same as you living in
Germany, the
last 20 years, make you any more an expert on American affairs, or
ancestry.
Has living in Germany influenced your belief of the Holocaust, or
was that
just a figment of some Jews to get the United States involved in
WWII? Don't
tell anyone, I'm not Jewish, either!
Oh, wait, that had nothing to do with the subject, either!! See how
easy it
is to throw out 'nothings' to distract from having to explain an
blanket
accusation that you make.
Now to your initial 'attack'!
Are you claiming that Prescott Bush was not a banker to the
NSDAP? Or that
he is not the grandfather of the present Bush?
If you dig hard enough in anyone's past you are bound to find an
ancestor of
some distasteful or criminal dealings. What you are fond of doing,
like many
in 'my own country', and re-write history...how far back in the
past should
the argument go?
I am an American...I've never owned a slave, or been a slave. I
think being
a minority does not make you noble or victimized. I haven't burned
any
witches. I've never shot an Indian or a Mexican. I didn't intern
any
Japanese Americans. I think if you are too stupid to know how a
ballot
works, I don't want you deciding who should be running the most
powerful
nation in the world for the next four years. I believe if she has
her lips
on your Willie, it's sex, and this applies even if you are
President of the
United States. I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it
makes you
a smart American. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or
her God
when and where they want to. I know professional wrestling is fake
and I
don't waste my time arguing about it. I think global warming is a
big lie.
Where are all those experts now, when I'm freezing my ***** off
during these
long winters and paying, paying, paying?
Wait, Wait...I've thought of something I may be guilty of..... My
Grandfather may have shot some Germans in WWI!!!!!! Or maybe my
Uncles may
have shot some German in WWII!!!!!
My Grandfather was gassed in WWI and was disabled. But, I haven't
held that,
or damned any present day Germans Nationals!
By the way, when you've lived in this country, as a citizen, then I
might
listen to any of your 'legitimate accusations about 'my' President!
Oh, also, I don't receive any disability pension of any kind!
If there is any credible evidence of criminal wrong doing by
President Bush,
or any other President, or elected official, I'd be first in line
for jury
duty! But I won't allow or be involved in an 'assignation by
headline' or
'bar room barrister!!'
So if you don't have anything intelligent to say, backed by real
evidence,
or you were there, then "Shut the Hell up!!"
Kim Herfurth
.
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 04:46:14 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:21:10 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle" <RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
- but then your convinced I am a Gerry anyhows...
No you are just a rotten moron kid. (Jerry = German in slang, Gerry was a
governor that the practice of Gerrymandering was named after)
.
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| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 05:03:12 PM |
|
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"vonroach" <vonroach@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:p46ehvg35nran5eg74177ltqr1on5gvsbf@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:21:10 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle"
<RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
- but then your convinced I am a Gerry anyhows...
No you are just a rotten moron kid. (Jerry = German in slang,
Gerry was a
governor that the practice of Gerrymandering was named after)
Wow - I never would have known that Jerry - is British slang for a
German :=)
Must admit I am not an expert on Gerrymadering - not my type of
politicas as you can appreciate.
ron b.
.
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
18 Jul 2003 07:13:37 AM |
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On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:03:12 +0200, "Ronald J. Bartle" <RBartle@t-online.de>
wrote:
goebbels...gobbels...gobbels...
This pathetic German turkey continues his fantasy life of a `poor disabled vet
with medals'. What a laugh!
.
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| User: "vonroach" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 04:42:35 PM |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:41:12 GMT, "Kim Herfurth" <kherfurth@woh.rr.com> wrote:
(LET ME GUESS, RON, YOU ARE NOT RECEIVING ANY KIND OF PENSION FOR YOUR
DISABILITY FROM GREAT BRITON)
Why pay disability to a bloody lying trollbaby?
.
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| User: "Ronald J. Bartle" |
|
| Title: Re: WMD will never be found in Iraq |
17 Jul 2003 05:07:52 PM |
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Info to all - I have put vonroach in my killfile in the interests of
being able to continue this discussion with less local background
noise factor - others may wish to follow suit.
"vonroach" <vonroach@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:v06ehvg1n4m07ehn250h9v3bilg79unlto@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:41:12 GMT, "Kim Herfurth"
<kherfurth@woh.rr.com> wrote:
(LET ME GUESS, RON, YOU ARE NOT RECEIVING ANY KIND OF PENSION FOR
YOUR
DISABILITY FROM GREAT BRITON)
Why pay disability to a bloody lying trollbaby?
.
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