Wounded soldiers billed for food



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Topic: Science > Prophecies-Of-Nostradamus
User: ""
Date: 14 Sep 2003 07:31:46 AM
Object: Wounded soldiers billed for food
Iraq
Wounded billed for hospital food
By BILL ADAIR, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published September 11, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON - After a grenade exploded inside his Humvee in Iraq,
Marine Staff Sgt. Bill Murwin was treated at a military hospital in
Germany and spent four weeks at the National Naval Medical Center in
Bethesda, Md. Part of his left foot was amputated.
His medical care was free, but the government billed him $243 for the
food.
Then, just three days after he received his first bill for the
hospital food in Germany, he got a stern letter saying the bill was
overdue. It warned that his account would be referred to a collection
agency.
Murwin, like thousands of other military personnel hospitalized every
year, is expected to reimburse the government $8.10 per day for food.
That's standard procedure because of a law Congress passed in 1981.
But it has angered many military families over the years.
When Rep. C.W. Bill Young, R-Largo, and his wife, Beverly, heard about
the problem, they personally paid Murwin's tab. Then the congressman
introduced a bill to change the rules.
Rep. Young said Wednesday that the soldiers "were sent to war by their
country. Many of them will be handicapped for the rest of their lives
- and we're asking them to pay $8.10 a day for their food! There's
something really wrong with that."
The practice is especially egregious, Young said, because "the food
probably isn't that good."
The rule was established because most military personnel receive $8.10
a day as a "basic allowance for subsistence" for food. But when they
are hospitalized, the government tries to recoup the money on the
theory that they are eating hospital food and therefore are
double-dipping.
Military officials have long disliked the rule but felt they had to
enforce it because of the 1981 law.
"If I could be king for a day, I'd stop it in a minute," said Maj.
Gen. Kevin C. Kiley, who commands the Army hospitals in the eastern
United States.
The government already bends the rules for soldiers in combat. They
are allowed keep the $8.10 even though they are also getting free
food, according to Young's office.
Murwin, 31, a sheriff's deputy in Nevada with 10 years of active duty
in the Marines and three years in the Reserves, says he was
flabbergasted the government would bill him.
"Holy smokes," he said. "I'm in the hospital - and they're going to
charge me for my food?"
He says he was willing to pay but thinks it's unfair that young
soldiers get billed.
"What made me so hot is that (it applies to) privates and lance
corporals - guys who barely make enough money to pay for their own
food, let alone take care of this," Murwin said.
Kiley, the Army medical commander, said the costs can add up. "If
you're here for a couple of months, you could rack up a thousand
dollars," he said.
Young, chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, said he was
unaware of the law until his wife heard about it from Murwin's
father-in-law. He has quickly lined up support for his bill, which
would reverse the rule so military personnel do not have to pay.
His staff hasn't had time to estimate the cost of the bill, Young
said, but the government has an obligation to pay for the food of
injured soldiers.
The bill has 96 co-sponsors and has been endorsed by associations that
represent enlisted personnel. Because of the strong support, the bill
is likely to sail through Congress in the next few weeks.
Kiley said that he is glad to see the bill and that it has wide
support in the military. But he disagrees with Young's unfavorable
assessment of the hospital cuisine.
"It really is pretty good food," Kiley said. "It's not the same as a
four-star restaurant. But we work pretty hard at it."
Murwin concurred, but said his taste buds had been dulled by weeks of
eating field chow - called MREs (for Meal, Ready to Eat) - in Iraq.
"I was expecting the worst" from the hospital food, he said. "I was
pleasantly surprised. I actually got a steak dinner one night."
.

User: "Ed Cregger"

Title: Re: Wounded soldiers billed for food 15 Sep 2003 08:51:45 AM
They could shove their food bill up their collective asses. How do they get
anyone to re enlist?
Ed Cregger
<DaarkSyde@home.com> wrote in message
news:8sn8mv0hj8ebif669cq99e6d74mfqk1a4v@4ax.com...

Iraq
Wounded billed for hospital food
By BILL ADAIR, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published September 11, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

------


WASHINGTON - After a grenade exploded inside his Humvee in Iraq,
Marine Staff Sgt. Bill Murwin was treated at a military hospital in
Germany and spent four weeks at the National Naval Medical Center in
Bethesda, Md. Part of his left foot was amputated.

His medical care was free, but the government billed him $243 for the
food.

Then, just three days after he received his first bill for the
hospital food in Germany, he got a stern letter saying the bill was
overdue. It warned that his account would be referred to a collection
agency.

Murwin, like thousands of other military personnel hospitalized every
year, is expected to reimburse the government $8.10 per day for food.
That's standard procedure because of a law Congress passed in 1981.
But it has angered many military families over the years.

When Rep. C.W. Bill Young, R-Largo, and his wife, Beverly, heard about
the problem, they personally paid Murwin's tab. Then the congressman
introduced a bill to change the rules.

Rep. Young said Wednesday that the soldiers "were sent to war by their
country. Many of them will be handicapped for the rest of their lives
- and we're asking them to pay $8.10 a day for their food! There's
something really wrong with that."

The practice is especially egregious, Young said, because "the food
probably isn't that good."

The rule was established because most military personnel receive $8.10
a day as a "basic allowance for subsistence" for food. But when they
are hospitalized, the government tries to recoup the money on the
theory that they are eating hospital food and therefore are
double-dipping.

Military officials have long disliked the rule but felt they had to
enforce it because of the 1981 law.

"If I could be king for a day, I'd stop it in a minute," said Maj.
Gen. Kevin C. Kiley, who commands the Army hospitals in the eastern
United States.

The government already bends the rules for soldiers in combat. They
are allowed keep the $8.10 even though they are also getting free
food, according to Young's office.

Murwin, 31, a sheriff's deputy in Nevada with 10 years of active duty
in the Marines and three years in the Reserves, says he was
flabbergasted the government would bill him.

"Holy smokes," he said. "I'm in the hospital - and they're going to
charge me for my food?"

He says he was willing to pay but thinks it's unfair that young
soldiers get billed.

"What made me so hot is that (it applies to) privates and lance
corporals - guys who barely make enough money to pay for their own
food, let alone take care of this," Murwin said.

Kiley, the Army medical commander, said the costs can add up. "If
you're here for a couple of months, you could rack up a thousand
dollars," he said.

Young, chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, said he was
unaware of the law until his wife heard about it from Murwin's
father-in-law. He has quickly lined up support for his bill, which
would reverse the rule so military personnel do not have to pay.

His staff hasn't had time to estimate the cost of the bill, Young
said, but the government has an obligation to pay for the food of
injured soldiers.

The bill has 96 co-sponsors and has been endorsed by associations that
represent enlisted personnel. Because of the strong support, the bill
is likely to sail through Congress in the next few weeks.

Kiley said that he is glad to see the bill and that it has wide
support in the military. But he disagrees with Young's unfavorable
assessment of the hospital cuisine.

"It really is pretty good food," Kiley said. "It's not the same as a
four-star restaurant. But we work pretty hard at it."

Murwin concurred, but said his taste buds had been dulled by weeks of
eating field chow - called MREs (for Meal, Ready to Eat) - in Iraq.

"I was expecting the worst" from the hospital food, he said. "I was
pleasantly surprised. I actually got a steak dinner one night."


.
User: "Gerald"

Title: Re: Wounded soldiers billed for food 15 Sep 2003 09:24:11 PM
In article <bk4g5h0c79@enews3.newsguy.com>, Ed Cregger says...



Ed, i haven't found my slender book about the Spanish Inquisition but here is
somethong on it.
http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article4.html
Article
The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition
by Ellen Rice
"The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition," a 1994 BBC/A&E production, will re-air on
the History Channel this December 3 at 10 p.m. It is a definite must-see for
anyone who wishes to know how historians now evaluate the Spanish Inquisition
since the opening of an investigation into the Inquisition's archives. The
special includes commentary from historians whose studies verify that the tale
of the darkest hour of the Church was greatly fabricated.
In its brief sixty-minute presentation, "The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition"
provides only an overview of the origins and debunking of the myths of torture
and genocide. The documentary definitely succeeds in leaving the viewer hungry
to know more. The long-held beliefs of the audience are sufficiently weakened by
the testimony of experts and the expose of the making of the myth.
The Inquisition began in 1480. Spain was beginning a historic reunification of
Aragon and Castile. The marriage of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile
created a unified Hispania not seen since Roman times. Afraid that laws
commanding the exile or conversion of Jews were thwarted by conversos, i.e.
synagogue-going "Catholics," Ferdinand and Isabella commissioned an
investigation or Inquisition. They began the Inquisition hoping that religious
unity would foster political unity, and other heads of state heralded Spain's
labors for the advent of a unified Christendom. The documentary clearly and
boldly narrates the historical context, which intimates that the Spanish were
not acting odd by their contemporary standards.
The Inquisition Myth, which Spaniards call "The Black Legend," did not arise in
1480. It began almost 100 years later, and exactly one year after the Protestant
defeat at the Battle of Mühlberg at the hands of Ferdinand's grandson, the Holy
Roman Emperor Charles V. In 1567 a fierce propaganda campaign began with the
publication of a Protestant leaflet penned by a supposed Inquisition victim
named Montanus. This character (Protestant of course) painted Spaniards as
barbarians who ravished women and sodomized young boys. The propagandists soon
created "hooded fiends" who tortured their victims in horrible devices like the
knife-filled Iron Maiden (which never was used in Spain). The BBC/A&E special
plainly states a reason for the war of words: the Protestants fought with words
because they could not win on the battlefield.
The Inquisition had a secular character, although the crime was heresy.
Inquisitors did not have to be clerics, but they did have to be lawyers. The
investigation was rule-based and carefully kept in check. And most
significantly, historians have declared fraudulent a supposed Inquisition
document claiming the genocide of millions of heretics.
What is documented is that 3000 to 5000 people died during the Inquisition's 350
year history. Also documented are the "Acts of Faith," public sentencings of
heretics in town squares. But the grand myth of thought control by sinister
fiends has been debunked by the archival evidence. The inquisitors enjoyed a
powerful position in the towns, but it was one constantly jostled by other power
brokers. In the outlying areas, they were understaffed - in those days it was
nearly impossible for 1 or 2 inquisitors to cover the thousand-mile territory
allotted to each team. In the outlying areas no one cared and no one spoke to
them. As the program documents, the 3,000 to 5,000 documented executions of the
Inquisition pale in comparison to the 150,000 documented witch burnings
elsewhere in Europe over the same centuries.
The approach is purely historical, and therefore does not delve into ecclesial
issues surrounding religious freedom. But perhaps this is proper. Because the
crime was heresy, the Church is implicated, but the facts show it was a secular
event.
One facet of the Black Legend that evaporates under scrutiny in this film is the
rumor that Philip II, son of Charles V, killed his son Don Carlos on the
advisement of the aging blind Grand Inquisitor. But without a shred of evidence,
the legend of Don Carlos has been enshrined in a glorious opera by Verdi.
The special may be disturbing to young children. There are scenes of poor souls
burning at the stake, and close-ups of the alleged torture devices. Scenes
depicting witches consorting with pot-bellied devils are especially grotesque.
For kids, this is the stuff of nightmares.
Discrediting the Black Legend brings up the sticky subject of revisionism.
Re-investigating history is only invalid if it puts an agenda ahead of reality.
The experts - once true believers in the Inquisition myth - were not out to do a
feminist canonization of Isabella or claim that Tomas de Torquemada was a
Marxist. Henry Kamen of the Higher Council for Scientific Research in Barcelona
said on camera that researching the Inquisition's archives "demolished the
previous image all of us (historians) had."
And the future of the Black Legend? For many it may continue to hold more weight
than reality. There is the emotional appeal against the Church. The dissenters
of today may easily imagine Torquemada's beady eyes as a metaphor of the
Church's "dictatorial, controlling, damning" pronouncements. The myth is also
the easiest endorsement of the secular state: "de-faith" the state and
de-criminalize heresy. Who will be the revisionists in this case? Will the many
follow Montanas' lead in rewriting history?
Our 20th century crisis of man playing God - usurping power over conception,
life, and death - leaves us with no alternative but to qualify our
demythologization of the Inquisition with a reminder: 3,000 to 5,000 victims are
3,000 to 5,000 too many.
Ellen Rice is assistant to the editor of Catholic Dossier.
.
User: "Ed Cregger"

Title: Re: Wounded soldiers billed for food 15 Sep 2003 10:32:50 PM
"Gerald" <Gerald_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:bk5s8b01ktm@drn.newsguy.com...

In article <bk4g5h0c79@enews3.newsguy.com>, Ed Cregger says...



Ed, i haven't found my slender book about the Spanish Inquisition but here

is

somethong on it.

http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Dossier/1112-96/article4.html

Article

The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition

by Ellen Rice
"The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition," a 1994 BBC/A&E production, will

re-air on

the History Channel this December 3 at 10 p.m. It is a definite must-see

for

anyone who wishes to know how historians now evaluate the Spanish

Inquisition

since the opening of an investigation into the Inquisition's archives. The
special includes commentary from historians whose studies verify that the

tale

of the darkest hour of the Church was greatly fabricated.


In its brief sixty-minute presentation, "The Myth of the Spanish

Inquisition"

provides only an overview of the origins and debunking of the myths of

torture

and genocide. The documentary definitely succeeds in leaving the viewer

hungry

to know more. The long-held beliefs of the audience are sufficiently

weakened by

the testimony of experts and the expose of the making of the myth.


The Inquisition began in 1480. Spain was beginning a historic

reunification of

Aragon and Castile. The marriage of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of

Castile

created a unified Hispania not seen since Roman times. Afraid that laws
commanding the exile or conversion of Jews were thwarted by conversos,

i.e.

synagogue-going "Catholics," Ferdinand and Isabella commissioned an
investigation or Inquisition. They began the Inquisition hoping that

religious

unity would foster political unity, and other heads of state heralded

Spain's

labors for the advent of a unified Christendom. The documentary clearly

and

boldly narrates the historical context, which intimates that the Spanish

were

not acting odd by their contemporary standards.


The Inquisition Myth, which Spaniards call "The Black Legend," did not

arise in

1480. It began almost 100 years later, and exactly one year after the

Protestant

defeat at the Battle of Mühlberg at the hands of Ferdinand's grandson, the

Holy

Roman Emperor Charles V. In 1567 a fierce propaganda campaign began with

the

publication of a Protestant leaflet penned by a supposed Inquisition

victim

named Montanus. This character (Protestant of course) painted Spaniards as
barbarians who ravished women and sodomized young boys. The propagandists

soon

created "hooded fiends" who tortured their victims in horrible devices

like the

knife-filled Iron Maiden (which never was used in Spain). The BBC/A&E

special

plainly states a reason for the war of words: the Protestants fought with

words

because they could not win on the battlefield.


The Inquisition had a secular character, although the crime was heresy.
Inquisitors did not have to be clerics, but they did have to be lawyers.

The

investigation was rule-based and carefully kept in check. And most
significantly, historians have declared fraudulent a supposed Inquisition
document claiming the genocide of millions of heretics.


What is documented is that 3000 to 5000 people died during the

Inquisition's 350

year history. Also documented are the "Acts of Faith," public sentencings

of

heretics in town squares. But the grand myth of thought control by

sinister

fiends has been debunked by the archival evidence. The inquisitors enjoyed

a

powerful position in the towns, but it was one constantly jostled by other

power

brokers. In the outlying areas, they were understaffed - in those days it

was

nearly impossible for 1 or 2 inquisitors to cover the thousand-mile

territory

allotted to each team. In the outlying areas no one cared and no one spoke

to

them. As the program documents, the 3,000 to 5,000 documented executions

of the

Inquisition pale in comparison to the 150,000 documented witch burnings
elsewhere in Europe over the same centuries.


The approach is purely historical, and therefore does not delve into

ecclesial

issues surrounding religious freedom. But perhaps this is proper. Because

the

crime was heresy, the Church is implicated, but the facts show it was a

secular

event.


One facet of the Black Legend that evaporates under scrutiny in this film

is the

rumor that Philip II, son of Charles V, killed his son Don Carlos on the
advisement of the aging blind Grand Inquisitor. But without a shred of

evidence,

the legend of Don Carlos has been enshrined in a glorious opera by Verdi.


The special may be disturbing to young children. There are scenes of poor

souls

burning at the stake, and close-ups of the alleged torture devices. Scenes
depicting witches consorting with pot-bellied devils are especially

grotesque.

For kids, this is the stuff of nightmares.


Discrediting the Black Legend brings up the sticky subject of revisionism.
Re-investigating history is only invalid if it puts an agenda ahead of

reality.

The experts - once true believers in the Inquisition myth - were not out

to do a

feminist canonization of Isabella or claim that Tomas de Torquemada was a
Marxist. Henry Kamen of the Higher Council for Scientific Research in

Barcelona

said on camera that researching the Inquisition's archives "demolished the
previous image all of us (historians) had."


And the future of the Black Legend? For many it may continue to hold more

weight

than reality. There is the emotional appeal against the Church. The

dissenters

of today may easily imagine Torquemada's beady eyes as a metaphor of the
Church's "dictatorial, controlling, damning" pronouncements. The myth is

also

the easiest endorsement of the secular state: "de-faith" the state and
de-criminalize heresy. Who will be the revisionists in this case? Will the

many

follow Montanas' lead in rewriting history?


Our 20th century crisis of man playing God - usurping power over

conception,

life, and death - leaves us with no alternative but to qualify our
demythologization of the Inquisition with a reminder: 3,000 to 5,000

victims are

3,000 to 5,000 too many.





Ellen Rice is assistant to the editor of Catholic Dossier.

Thank you very much, Gerald. I will try to catch up with the film. It sounds
fascinating. I do appreciate the time and effort you have expended in
answering my request.
Ed Cregger
.


User: ""

Title: Re: Wounded soldiers billed for food 15 Sep 2003 06:06:44 PM
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:51:45 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@hotmail.com> wrote:

They could shove their food bill up their collective asses. How do they get
anyone to re enlist?

Ed Cregger

That's your government for you. Are you proud of them now? Hahahaha
.
User: "Ed Cregger"

Title: Re: Wounded soldiers billed for food 16 Sep 2003 06:22:13 AM
Yes, I am proud of them. They make mistakes. That's because they actually do
something besides *****, moan and whine.
Ed Cregger
<DaarkSyde@home.com> wrote in message
news:rehcmv49jm8i9jh98666ilukjim11pnaa6@4ax.com...

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:51:45 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@hotmail.com> wrote:

They could shove their food bill up their collective asses. How do they

get

anyone to re enlist?

Ed Cregger

That's your government for you. Are you proud of them now? Hahahaha

.
User: ""

Title: Re: Wounded soldiers billed for food 16 Sep 2003 07:32:57 AM
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:22:13 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I am proud of them. They make mistakes. That's because they actually do
something besides *****, moan and whine.

Ed Cregger

And kill lots of women and children. Be real proud of that.
"life is like a mushroom, they feed you ***** and keep you in the dark"
.
User: "Jean Guernon"

Title: Re: Wounded soldiers billed for food 26 Sep 2003 08:04:15 AM
a écrit :


On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:22:13 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I am proud of them. They make mistakes. That's because they actually do
something besides *****, moan and whine.

Ed Cregger


And kill lots of women and children. Be real proud of that.

"life is like a mushroom, they feed you ***** and keep you in the dark"

Hey mushroom junkie, ONLY Saddam and his minions are responsible for
that.
J.
.
User: "Pia"

Title: Re: Wounded soldiers billed for food 29 Sep 2003 10:32:51 PM
Jean Guernon <jguernon@globetrotter.net> wrote in message news:<3F7439ED.8AD071FD@globetrotter.net>...

DaarkSyde@home.com a écrit :


On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:22:13 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I am proud of them. They make mistakes. That's because they actually do
something besides *****, moan and whine.

Ed Cregger


And kill lots of women and children. Be real proud of that.

"life is like a mushroom, they feed you ***** and keep you in the dark"


Hey mushroom junkie, ONLY Saddam and his minions are responsible for
that.

J.

"A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm". Period.
Proxy for war. Sick.
.







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